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YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

washingtonpost.com

611–620 of 1001 posts

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#611

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

> Months ago he was insisting that the people who had contracted COVID-19 and who had antibodies in their system may not need the vaccine. Now, we have a number of studies coming out to support that. But months ago that was "anti-vax" (employing the slanderous use of the term). If you're claiming something that hasn't been demonstrated through peer-reviewed scientific research, then you're offering your opinion. If y…

>If you're claiming something that hasn't been demonstrated through peer-reviewed scientific research,

That's not how science has worked, especially in this pandemic. Most of what we know about SARS-CoV-2 came to us through biorxiv preprints and posts on forums like virological.org; the added value of peer review has typically been minimal (but often adding 3-12 months of delay in disseminating information). Even the role of peer review as a gate keeper has been wanting, lots of garbage studies about Covid-19 with glaring confounders keep getting published in peer reviewed journals. You could probably find a few hundred trials with systematic age differences between treatment groups that have been published in respectable venues. Some of these studies even contribute significantly to misinformation about the efficacy of sham treatments like hydroxycholoroquine and ivermectin.

There is unfortunately no short-cut to the development of individual scientific literacy, no trusted tier of experts which can safeguard us from misunderstanding and falsehood. We're all more or less on our own.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#612

“All censorships exist to prevent anyone from challenging current conceptions and existing institutions. All progress is initiated by challenging current conceptions, and executed by supplanting existing institutions.” George Bernard Shaw “Freedom of expression is the matrix, the indispensable condition, of nearly every other form of freedom.” U.S. Supreme Court Justice Benjamin N. Cardozo in Palko v. Connecticut "If…

YouTube isn't the government

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#613

My wife is very vaccine hesitant, and every time they make a move like this to block content or take it down, it only strengthens her position. She thinks they’re taking it down because they don’t want people to know the truth. The only thing worse than bad ideas is the suppression of bad ideas. It’s tragic that we knew this at some point, but are going to have to figure it all back out again the hard way.

I disagree. I think we can all agree that we don't need videos talking about how the "bad ideas" of slavery/child abuse/human trafficking/etc. are wonderful things. I think we are right to suppress them. You can make the same argument that allowing these videos validates that they must be telling the truth or YT wouldn't allow it. If all you are looking for is confirmation bias, it is all you will find. It sounds like you wife won't get a vaccine no matter what so let's not argue semantics about what will make her even less likely to get a vaccine.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#615
post #50

Someone want to throw out there a better way to combat disinformation than just armchair criticizing their decision? I almost feel like people are siding with the anti-vaxxers out of "principle". Just a no win situation. It's too easy for bad characters to screw up an entire system with little effort (look at trolls, spammers, etc). Either you moderate everyone and slippery slope down into censorship where the tools…

Principles aren't worth anything if people don't stick by them when expediency would recommend another course of action.

... This is why I chucked this particular principle overboard years ago. I don't personally think it holds water in light of irrational human actors and an under-informed public, given the immense power of modern bidirectional communications media.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#616

Here's a thought experiment. Suppose we were at war with a hostile adversary, and that adversary had killed over 700,000 people already, and thousands more each day. I can scarcely believe that any reasonable person would argue that blocking propaganda or misinformation that harms the war effort would be an egregious imposition on free speech. Once the imminent threat is over, those efforts can and should stop, but n…

That's a good point about the extraordinary measures taken. Accordingly, since the number of deaths from the top three causes of U.S. deaths in 2019 were heart disease (659,041), cancer (599,601) and accidents (173,040), we should boycott all propaganda or misinformation around how being overweight is healthy, immediately close all fast food establishments, provide free fruits & vegetables for all Americans, close al…

Let's be clear on what we're comparing here.

We're comparing a short term ban on provable lies about a cheap, safe and highly effective set of vaccines with a long term, permanent ban on all activities that could increase the risk of heart disease of cancer.

First, vaccines highly effective. Even if the draconian measures you proposed were implemented, would they even reduce the heart disease and cancer death totals? How much would the reduction be?

Second, vaccines are not an egregious imposition on your lifestyle. The cost is tiny, the time taken is tiny, the side effects are minor. I can't think of a single significant change in my life due to having been vaccinated, other than not worrying about dying due to Covid.

Finally, the ban on misinformation would be temporary, because the crisis will pass. Like wars, pandemics are temporary. Even before vaccination and modern medicine was invented, pandemics eventually end. When would the draconian measures you're proposing end? Heart disease and cancer are not communicable diseases. Your solution isn't a sustainable long term answer to anything.

Your comparison is frankly very dishonest and disingenuous. Wanting to reduce provably false misinformation about vaccines is nothing like the draconian, permanent measures you're proposing.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#617
post #488

> I'm confident there was also some element of "if I get it now I'm telling them their tactics worked." Thanks for your vulnerability admitting someone very close to you has behaved out of spite and contrary to their own interest and the interests of their community. How is your mother’s behavior in delaying^ not “too stupid to make their own decisions” though? Behaving out of spite is stupid (and totally human! Not…

Personal attacks are not cool here no matter how wrong someone is or you feel they are. Please make your substantive points without stooping to this.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28694731.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#619
This is why I prefer Rumble. Given how woke politically Google has become it is no longer a platform I want to support.

Whenever information is censored I am naturally suspicious around the motivations. Censorship also gives the censored opinion more credibility because if that opinion was so objectively false and crazy it would be easy to convince people about the craziness of it. But when your ideas are so weak that the only way you can convince people you are right is to censor, ban, violently crush etc. the opposing view this is what you get.

Even though I got the vax, given all of the authoritarian thinking etc. around the pro-vax stand, lockdowns etc. I often wonder if I made the right decision.

The lockdowns, vaccines etc. have mostly been a massive over-reaction. As a software engineer I have benefited from them economically, but I still don't think the devastation from the cure, which was been far worse than the sickness was the right thing and really have never supported it.

Life is risky and dangerous. Many anti-vaxers have a philosophy where they would rather live in a dangerous democracy instead of a "safe" authoritarian government. Trying to ban their ideas does nothing to win their hearts and minds.

Also, ironically, while everyone is making a big deal about hospitals being at capacity etc. when there is a surge of cases, why is it that nobody is putting as much energy into discussing the spiraling cost of health care of why it is that we have a system with so little slack for emergencies.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#620
post #510

Here's a thought experiment. Suppose we were at war with a hostile adversary, and that adversary had killed over 700,000 people already, and thousands more each day. I can scarcely believe that any reasonable person would argue that blocking propaganda or misinformation that harms the war effort would be an egregious imposition on free speech. Once the imminent threat is over, those efforts can and should stop, but n…

That's the thing, COVID is an "eternal war" as described in dystopian novels. If you describe COVID in war terms, then it justifies all sorts of atrocities.

It's not though. Pandemics have happened before and they end.

Second, what's the atrocity being committed exactly? People temporarily are prevented from publishing extraordinarily brazen lies, clearly scientifically false, which are killing thousands of people? I can't see what the evil is here.

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