The crazy thing about Theranos is that so many people with experience in microfluidics (developed mainly for DNA sequencing although there are other uses) knew that their claims were impossible, technologically speaking. Working with such small volumes to obtain quantitive estimates of blood chemistry is so implausible, as you are introducing uncontrollable variability - micro-evaporation, even tissue localization is…
A little history helps [EDIT: Maybe not!] explain it a bit. Back when Holmes was a rising star, we were in the middle of #MeToo, Tech Bro companies were getting increasing scrutiny about their treatment of women, and in general how tech companies were struggling with diversity, and then all of a sudden, we have this company founded by a seemingly smart, driven, technically-savvy woman, educated at Stanford (!) and wh…
Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors
131–140 of 264 posts
Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What just amazed me is how gullible all the investors were, and how they didn't do due diligence, hire outside experts, or anything. Weird. The thing is, the primary goal of an investor is not to invest in companies that are honest and actually do what they claim. The goal is to invest in a company that reaches a valuation high enough to let them recoup their investment at a profit. If that valuation happens throug…
Can you provide any examples of a high-profile company, ultimately shown to be dishonest, where the early investors were able to “cash out” before this dishonesty became known?
Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you provide any examples of a high-profile company, ultimately shown to be dishonest, where the early investors were able to “cash out” before this dishonesty became known?
Uber Explanation, since this is being downvoted. Uber might not have lied about their business, but it surely looks like investors never cared about the businesses viability and rather only cared about being able to turn a profit on their investment (which was the point being made by the gp). To this day, it is still not clear if Uber’s business model is viable. Also not to mention the original CEO/founder’s reputati…
Yea that is what we discussing about Theranos. Theranos was an outright fraud. You cannot say the same about Uber whether they inflated or lied about their profits etc. Uber provides a real service and honestly a good one for people. Theranos on the other hand, played with people's lives by lying about their entire business model and product which never worked. Big difference.
Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What just amazed me is how gullible all the investors were, and how they didn't do due diligence, hire outside experts, or anything. Weird. The thing is, the primary goal of an investor is not to invest in companies that are honest and actually do what they claim. The goal is to invest in a company that reaches a valuation high enough to let them recoup their investment at a profit. If that valuation happens throug…
Can you provide any examples of a high-profile company, ultimately shown to be dishonest, where the early investors were able to “cash out” before this dishonesty became known?
Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors
#135The crazy thing about Theranos is that so many people with experience in microfluidics (developed mainly for DNA sequencing although there are other uses) knew that their claims were impossible, technologically speaking. Working with such small volumes to obtain quantitive estimates of blood chemistry is so implausible, as you are introducing uncontrollable variability - micro-evaporation, even tissue localization is…
Gullible or just willing to take a risk on something that may get them a return on their investment before it all collapsed?
Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What just amazed me is how gullible all the investors were, and how they didn't do due diligence, hire outside experts, or anything. Weird. The thing is, the primary goal of an investor is not to invest in companies that are honest and actually do what they claim. The goal is to invest in a company that reaches a valuation high enough to let them recoup their investment at a profit. If that valuation happens throug…
Can you provide any examples of a high-profile company, ultimately shown to be dishonest, where the early investors were able to “cash out” before this dishonesty became known?
A company doesn't have to have an exit for early investors to get out. You just need to find a sucker to buy into a round later than you.
How to do that, in the modern context, is pretty clear. Either do it through outright fraud (Theranos, Nikola, MagicLeap), extreme FOMO (MagicLeap), or raising so much that you crush competition despite comically bad fundamentals and never get to unit-profitability (Uber, others).
Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is that successful startups often start out claiming that which is impossible. Uber was impossible, because it was illegal. Amazon was impossible, as you couldn't pack and ship stuff that cheaply. Personal computers were at one point considered ludicrous.
Uber was not generally illegal [0]. So called “Black car” (or private car for hire) services (so called because these cars used to be limousine like vehicles but now can be anything, e.g. UberX) where a driver arranges pickup with a passenger in advance — which is how Uber started - is not regulated in most cities at all, or is regulated very differently than taxis. What legally distinguishes taxis and requires medal…
A catastrophic vehicle failure at highway speeds could cause death but these kinds of failures are not especially likely, and drivers are expected to be able to reasonably handle circumstances they may encounter. The most dangerous circumstance I can think of off the top of my head that is not whether related would be the explosive decompression of a tire at highway speed, leading to loss of control of the vehicle. While the car might begin to swerve, a driver should react to this and keep the vehicle under control while they navigate to the shoulder. Catastrophic failure of brakes isn’t a common occurrence, and brakes begin to squeak when they are wearing down; the entire brake system would have to fail.
Interestingly, the FAA does make this distinction for pilots licenses: if you are going to fly someone in an aircraft for hire, then a private pilots license (PPL) is not sufficient, and you need a commercial license - even if you’re operating the same aircraft. You can split the costs of travel with someone if you’re both flying to the same destination, but you cannot fly someone else for hire and charge them for everything (in other words, operate a small airline or a charter service).
I can think of a number of good reasons for this: among other things, most adults with driver licenses quickly develop hundreds or thousands of hours behind the wheel of a car, and if the car malfunctions you can simply stop (most of the time — driving in extreme weather conditions being an exception to this). Private pilots engaged in general aviation may take years to reach 1000 hours flying an aircraft, whereas a professional pilot probably flies 1000 hours each year; and has a rigorously routine re-training and certification schedule (from what I understand) because an aircraft malfunction in the air is a very serious situation. Plus the amount of information that pilots need to know in order to fly safely is substantially greater than what drivers need to know; the maneuvers that pilots need to execute are much more cognitively and mechanically intensive, and the concurrent task workload is much higher.
A private pilot engaged in general aviation is the one taking on the risk of an accident, along with anyone they bring along (e.g. friends/family). When a (non-pilot) passenger pays someone else to fly them, they have little understanding of the risks involved in the activity - whereas most adults know how to drive or could easily get a license; and even if they don’t, they understand the risks of road travel - whereas non-pilots have few understanding of the risks of air travel.
Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors
#138The crazy thing about Theranos is that so many people with experience in microfluidics (developed mainly for DNA sequencing although there are other uses) knew that their claims were impossible, technologically speaking. Working with such small volumes to obtain quantitive estimates of blood chemistry is so implausible, as you are introducing uncontrollable variability - micro-evaporation, even tissue localization is…
A little history helps [EDIT: Maybe not!] explain it a bit. Back when Holmes was a rising star, we were in the middle of #MeToo, Tech Bro companies were getting increasing scrutiny about their treatment of women, and in general how tech companies were struggling with diversity, and then all of a sudden, we have this company founded by a seemingly smart, driven, technically-savvy woman, educated at Stanford (!) and wh…
By the time MeToo started, Theranos had been sued by investors, Walgreens, and CMS. Additionally, Holmes was banned from running labs and Theranos had failed many inspections with severe penalties. Theranos was all but dead by the time MeToo took off.
What really happened (according to my recollection of reading Bad Blood) is that Holmes never really connected with the medical community. Anyone with any domain expertise knew her tech claims were impossible. She used her personal connections to generals, politicians, and wealthy individuals to spin this web of lies and keep raising money. Most of the Silicon Valley Investor elite had nothing to do with Theranos.
I really dislike your interpretation of events. Not only because it makes no sense with the actual history but you play on stereotypes & generalizations to make a point. Tech certainly needs more female founders but you're not helping by twisting what really happened.
1) https://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/ct-me-too-timeline...
2) https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/07/tech/elizabeth-holmes-therano...
Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What just amazed me is how gullible all the investors were, and how they didn't do due diligence, hire outside experts, or anything. Weird. The thing is, the primary goal of an investor is not to invest in companies that are honest and actually do what they claim. The goal is to invest in a company that reaches a valuation high enough to let them recoup their investment at a profit. If that valuation happens throug…
Can you provide any examples of a high-profile company, ultimately shown to be dishonest, where the early investors were able to “cash out” before this dishonesty became known?
Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you provide any examples of a high-profile company, ultimately shown to be dishonest, where the early investors were able to “cash out” before this dishonesty became known?
Uber Explanation, since this is being downvoted. Uber might not have lied about their business, but it surely looks like investors never cared about the businesses viability and rather only cared about being able to turn a profit on their investment (which was the point being made by the gp). To this day, it is still not clear if Uber’s business model is viable. Also not to mention the original CEO/founder’s reputati…
When they first launched UberX in DC, I called them out for a price comparison of Taxi vs UberX that couldn't possibly be true. They quietly changed the blog post and marketing materials shortly after.