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YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

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Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#541

Here's a thought experiment. Suppose we were at war with a hostile adversary, and that adversary had killed over 700,000 people already, and thousands more each day. I can scarcely believe that any reasonable person would argue that blocking propaganda or misinformation that harms the war effort would be an egregious imposition on free speech. Once the imminent threat is over, those efforts can and should stop, but n…

I think a large part of it is because the "misinformation" keeps changing. At first masks did nothing, then saying masks did nothing became "misinformation". The lab leak theory was "misinformation", until suddenly it wasn't. Large group gatherings spread Covid, but the BLM protests didn't. The list goes on, and the "experts" have changed their mind so many times that the idea that Youtube should be deciding what kind of thought is allowed is horrifying.

I am fully vaccinated, but given how many times we've been blatantly lied to or mislead by experts and officials, I can easily see why so many people don't trust the vaccine. And given that we don't know what the experts and officials are going to say tomorrow, I support people's right to be skeptical and talk about their skepticism with others.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#542

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

> I think we have to ask No we don't. The question we have to ask is whether allowing this content is worse for society than any stifling of moderate voices. And the answer is obviously yes. Covid-hoaxers represent millions of people who are causing a national health crisis that doesn't need to be happening anymore . Fuck moderate voices who are "just asking questions". They can deal with playing a little less devil'…

STFU is not going to work to build trust in government and medical institutions. Frankly, believing it will is one of the reasons why things go downhill these days. "My way or the highway" has never really done anything good to make people understand eachother. I hear that you are frustrated, but your attitude is not going to help anyone except yourself.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#543

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

> I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices.

That's the point of all censorship. It isn't to censor the truly outrageous wackos spouting nonsense since hardly anyone believes them and most laugh at them. It's to censor the moderates who critically analyze and perhaps offer some truth.

Heliocentrism has been around since the ancient greeks which the church leaders could easily write off as being the ideas of backwards pagans. After all, you can see for yourself that the sun rises in the east and crosses the sky and sets in the west. They could "prove" it to the laity. It was only when telescopes and scientific evidence proved that the sun doesn't revolve around the earth that the church started censoring, excommunicating and killing people. The censorship wasn't to silence the uneducated wackos, it was to silence the likes of galileo, copernicus, etc.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#544

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

I was banned from a Reddit sub for saying that a previous Covid infection probably infers some immunity. This was around 8 months ago. Now EU vaccine passports accept a recovery from infection as being sufficient proof of immunity. On top of that now it's coming out that the Canadian military/government (and likely others) was intentionally deploying propaganda to make the populace more compliant. This is why moderat…

Anyone who shames you for taking/not taking a form of medicine can safely be ignored. I know it's easier said than done but things like HIPAA exist for a reason. It's no one's business.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#545

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

> Months ago he was insisting that the people who had contracted COVID-19 and who had antibodies in their system may not need the vaccine. Now, we have a number of studies coming out to support that. But months ago that was "anti-vax" (employing the slanderous use of the term). If you're claiming something that hasn't been demonstrated through peer-reviewed scientific research, then you're offering your opinion. If y…

The same exact argument could be said about the platforms.

What evidence do they have that that there is no chance of complications for certain individuals?

They need to be held to the same standard they are holding their end users.

In the last year social media platforms have suppressed facts and discourse pre-emptively and only months later do we find out that there was truth in the censored content. They can't be the final arbitraters of truth.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#546

Of course it will. Welcome to the new propaganda. Same as the old propaganda. Free speech is the act of standing up for those who you disagree with simply because you believe they have the right to be heard. In today's world of "woke" content creators, everyone seems to miss this point. What started out as fairly clear cut issues such as racism and homophobia has now bled into grey areas around vaccines and gain of f…

> "Why should they trust the government, the CDC, the WHO and the like? What have they done to prove they are trustworthy at this point?"

This is the crux of the issue IMO. As someone pointed out in another comment, the CDC of the past is not the same as the CDC of today.

I am vaccinated as are my wife and kids (young adults). However, it was not a slam-dunk decision to get it.

Why the hesitancy?

- Trump pushed to get the vaccine in record time (maybe to score some political points?)

- When outbreak first hit the US, Trump tried to halt international travel to a large extent. He was berated for this, while it seemed to me to be a prudent action given the situation. Other countries put the clamps on international travel and I didn't see any criticism of them.

- While Trump was still in office, Harris and others were publicly quoted as saying that if Trump says they should get the vaccine that they would be hesitant (don't recall the exact quote). (Did they say this as a legitimate concern or as a way of scoring political points?)

- Biden administration, supporters, and MSM rush to label anyone who questioned whether the virus originated from Wuhan lab as "conspiracy theorists", "kooks", "crackpots", "nutjobs", etc. Then later on, well-respected scientists openly suggest that Wuhan lab could be the origin. (Who is trying to manipulate our perceptions and WHY?)

- Mask mandates openly ignored by the same people who advocated for strict adherence (Gov. Whitmer, Pres. Biden, former Pres. Obama's big birthday party, etc.) If wearing a mask is so important for public health, why are they NOT doing it at times?

- Sufficient public testimony from NIH scientists in Congressional hearings to conclude that NIH funding of Wuhan lab through 3rd party DID fit the definition of gain-of-function research (suggesting that Fauci is lying to the public. Why?)

- Earlier in outbreak, Biden administration stated that they don't foresee mask mandates. Later, mask mandates.

- There is ample anecdotal evidence to suggest that many hospitals were quick to report fatalities as being Covid when there was no Covid connection. Why? Were the hospitals coached to act this way? Was it about federal government payments? Make the numbers look a certain way?

- From the very earliest days of Biden administration, up to today, there has been record immigration on the southern border. Putting aside your position about how immigration should or should not be handled IN THE ABSENCE OF a worldwide pandemic, WHY are record number of immigrants being encouraged, supported, and processed at our southern border? Are they being tested for Covid? Mayorkas just made a statement a day or 2 ago that he was SURPRISED by the jump in delta variant numbers at the immigrant processing and staging locations!! Really??? WTF are these people thinking?

I could continue on, but by now you either see the pattern or you refuse to acknowledge that it's even conceivable that there could be a pattern of deception.

If I look back over the history of vaccinations, they have been an absolute blessing to all of humanity. There's no doubt about their effectiveness in wiping out terrible things such as Polio (as just 1 example).

However, today there is so much evidence that federal government, UN, WHO, state governments, local governments, MSM, Facebook, Youtube, Twitter, etc. are now operating under a perpetual mode of MANIPULATION to coerce the public to their DESIRED end goals, irrespective of truth and scientific fact. Both Democrat and Republican parties are guilty.

Are you really surprised that there are people who question the truth and sincerity of the powers that be?

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#547

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

> Months ago he was insisting that the people who had contracted COVID-19 and who had antibodies in their system may not need the vaccine. Now, we have a number of studies coming out to support that. But months ago that was "anti-vax" (employing the slanderous use of the term). If you're claiming something that hasn't been demonstrated through peer-reviewed scientific research, then you're offering your opinion. If y…

> If you're claiming something that hasn't been demonstrated through peer-reviewed scientific research, then you're offering your opinion.

Not necessarily. What is the bar to be defined as "scientific research"? What is the bar for "peer review"? Considering the massive amount of evidence that a large amount of "peer review" doesn't review much and that a measurable amount of "scientific research" is inadequate and sometimes outright fraudulent, any pursuit of truth shouldn't be built exclusively on such a weak foundation. But to your point, good research should hold more weight (and does!).

> If you're pushing a narrative that implies that you shouldn't get vaccinated, then yes, that's "anti-vax".

And yet concerns about the long-term safety of these vaccines are, by definition, untested. The long term efficacy of these vaccines are certainly in doubt. Both are reasonable concerns worth debating and exploring. But will get classified as "anti-vax" and will become subject to censorship "for our own good".

I am vaccinated. I believe these vaccines represent an astounding accomplishment. I believe people should have access to all information in order to make the best decisions for themselves.

I also have some skepticism regarding the messages and messaging that comes from the CDC and NIH. I also distrust the role they've played in any discussion regarding the origins of Covid.

Why we (in America at least) can watch abject government incompetence in the DoD, FBI, CIA, ICE, IRS, and on and on but pretend the CDC and the NIH, the ultimate gatekeepers of the Covid and vaccine narratives, are immune to such failings is beyond me.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#548

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

> Months ago he was insisting that the people who had contracted COVID-19 and who had antibodies in their system may not need the vaccine. Now, we have a number of studies coming out to support that. But months ago that was "anti-vax" (employing the slanderous use of the term). If you're claiming something that hasn't been demonstrated through peer-reviewed scientific research, then you're offering your opinion. If y…

In the 19th century, Ignaz Semmelweis claimed that hand washing was a way to improve hygiene and communicable disease. If Google had existed in 1847, his claims would have been censored since they went strongly against the scientific consensus. History is littered with examples like this. Most of us with a STEM education spent years learning about example after example of a great scientist or whistleblower that was scorned by the medical or scientific community, and it turned out that countless lives could have been saved if people had kept a more open mind. I am greatly disappointed in anyone who claims to be educated but thinks that censorship is acceptable in a free society.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#549
post #488

> I'm confident there was also some element of "if I get it now I'm telling them their tactics worked." Thanks for your vulnerability admitting someone very close to you has behaved out of spite and contrary to their own interest and the interests of their community. How is your mother’s behavior in delaying^ not “too stupid to make their own decisions” though? Behaving out of spite is stupid (and totally human! Not…

Not wanting to enable and reward nefarious tactics is not “acting out of spite.”

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#550

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

> think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices

You have to weigh that against the known chilling effect caused by the disinformation campaign.

You also have to include the fact that the disinformation campaign is killing people. And that it is known to be partially funded by governments specifically to shut down discourse and destabilize the US.

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