Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

491–500 of 1001 posts

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#491

Post by macinjosh »

afarrell wrote: post #110
afavour wrote: post #40

Time for repeat showing of the free speech debate we’ve already had a dozen times, whoopee! As ever, IMO, the problem isn’t the hosting or the banning, it’s the algorithms. I don’t care whether YouTube hosts anti-vaccine activists, I care that they actively promote anti-vaccine content to users simply because it’s proven to get clicks and earn them money. Bans like this look incredibly stupid when you realise YouTube…

There seems to be an AI safety problem here: The youtube algorithm is optimizing for engagement at the cost of some other less-quantifiable human value like social trust. https://youtu.be/L5pUA3LsEaw

I am gonna go out on a limb and say Google's product dashboards likely all have engagement metrics and probably close to zero have "social trust" metrics.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#492

Post by uuddlrlr »

vosper wrote: post #473

How will we tell if it works? A decrease in anti-vax sentiment and an uptick in vaccine take-up? How will we tell that it was due to YouTube? What if it doesn’t move the needle at all (pun intended) - does it mean YouTube is much less influential than we (and they, apparently) think? Or that they waited too long and the anti-vax message had already embedded? It’ll be very interesting to watch.

YouTube's algorithms probably radicalized a good chunk to begin with.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#493

Post by stickfigure »

tylerhou wrote: post #425
mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

The problem with your argument is that you assume that legitimate voices won't be coöpted by people pushing some agenda that is not supported by any data; i.e. you assume that the people on the other side of the "public debate" are operating in good faith. There is no debate when one side is not seriously & honestly looking at the data. It's good to debate science and to question whether vaccines are safe and effecti…

By censoring the debate on youtube, you're basically confirming to the wacko conspiracy theorists that there is in fact a conspiracy. The damage to civil society is far greater than a little misinformation.

The solution to bad speech is more speech. Speaking of nuance easily lost, an algorithm is not going to be able to figure out the nuance required to censor rationally. Honestly, I don't think most humans are capable of it. Best to err on the side of letting information spread.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#494

Post by crocodiletears »

eertami wrote: post #388
crocodiletears wrote: post #238

At this point I'm not hesitant about the vaccine, but getting it would only validate the heavy-handed approach we're seeing wrt censorship.

Dude read that back to yourself and think about it for just 5 seconds. "Validate" it how exactly. This is just like a child folding his arms and saying "well now I'm not doing it" because somebody asked them to. It's the same attitude that has left hundreds of thousands pointlessly dead, because owning the libs is more important than self-preservation.

I'm not happy with it either. If there's another way to push back against corporate censorship that's more effective than boycotting their services and the objectives they're working towards, I'm all ears.

But so far as I can tell, I don't have a voice in the matter so I'll opt to be a statistical papercut.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#495

Post by rootlocus »

zionic wrote: post #396
mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

People need to get it through their skulls that "tech companies" have _no place_ "moderating" scientific debate. If you've ever found yourself typing "Should X give Y a platform?" you are part of the problem. Be better, be a part of the solution.

Scientific debate happens in scientific circles. The results are presented to the media. The public debates it on social media.

> Be better, be a part of the solution.

And what is the solution?

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#496

Post by andiareso »

andreskytt wrote: post #239

Free speech used to mean the right to say anything without persecution. Does it now mean the right to have ones opinion be actively globally distributed by a third party? This is very much about fighting two viruses: one biological and the other one informational. We agree to limit contacts between people to stop the one but do not accept the same method to stop the other. Why? In both cases it is vital to ensure the…

I agree the general meaning would be free to say and do anything, however in reality free speech is freedom of speech from the government. Not individuals or private entities. What is common in law is the idea of the market place of ideas. This is generally what free speech to the average American is. We are free to spread information whether right or wrong in order for others to comment and critique and to grow as citizens. I think it's a horribly slippery slope to ban one group from speaking. You can't have an active conversation about a topic without allowing someone to talk. Their decision is sidestepping the root cause and is treating the symptom which is algorithms optimized for engagement. Misinformation and hysteria is what drives engagement.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#497

Post by brianobush »

mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

Most MDs are general physicians and know little about vaccines other than textbook knowledge that is decades old. Why would you trust them over a team of researchers? Especially at this point of the pandemic when we have so much data showing their effectiveness?

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#498

Post by [deleted] »

listless wrote: post #174

My wife is very vaccine hesitant, and every time they make a move like this to block content or take it down, it only strengthens her position. She thinks they’re taking it down because they don’t want people to know the truth. The only thing worse than bad ideas is the suppression of bad ideas. It’s tragic that we knew this at some point, but are going to have to figure it all back out again the hard way.

[deleted]

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#499

Post by RandomLensman »

mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

One of the reasons we find ourselves even in such a predicament is so odd: while governments the world over were (and are) quite willing to put very strong curbs, shut-downs etc. in place, they are hesitant to generally mandate vaccination. So now we are in these proxy campaigns on vaccinations.

Of course, one could argue that governments should not/cannot mandate vaccination, but then we also generally accept that governments can send you off to die in wars. Generally speaking, this whole mess actually brings some much deeper issues on state vs the individual to the surface. Those are the ones that will eventually need proper debate much more than finer points on immunology.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#500

Post by cryptica »

Time to switch to https://odysee.com/ - It's been growing very fast. You can buy LBRY tokens to align your incentives on the financial side: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/library-credits/

You can profit from doing the right thing and taking a stance against censorship.

Post reply on HN