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I Like PHP

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Re: I Like PHP

#71

Post by lhnz »

slindsey wrote: post #68
chc wrote: post #23

"I don’t even bother writing tests for most of the PHP I write (obviously, I would be a bit more thorough if this code were destined to be used in a more mission critical web site). Not writing tests is not the only software taboo that I break when I write PHP: I happily mix up presentation and logic all the time. That’s just how PHP is supposed to work" And this is why everybody else hates PHP. It tempts you to writ…

Can you please provide me a resource to learn how to fully separate the code from the markup? I learned web development on ColdFusion then switched to PHP. I certainly understand separation of content from design (HTML to CSS) but I honestly have no idea how to do web development without mixing markup (HTML) with the actual programming. I've done a little C and Java web stuff where my code printed HTML output - ugly.…

Have a play around with a framework such as Symfony [1]. That's the most natural way of learning a better style of PHP web development.

[1] http://www.symfony-project.org/

Re: I Like PHP

#72

Post by jimktrains2 »

slindsey wrote: post #68
chc wrote: post #23

"I don’t even bother writing tests for most of the PHP I write (obviously, I would be a bit more thorough if this code were destined to be used in a more mission critical web site). Not writing tests is not the only software taboo that I break when I write PHP: I happily mix up presentation and logic all the time. That’s just how PHP is supposed to work" And this is why everybody else hates PHP. It tempts you to writ…

Can you please provide me a resource to learn how to fully separate the code from the markup? I learned web development on ColdFusion then switched to PHP. I certainly understand separation of content from design (HTML to CSS) but I honestly have no idea how to do web development without mixing markup (HTML) with the actual programming. I've done a little C and Java web stuff where my code printed HTML output - ugly.…

Use an MVC framework.

I prefer Kohana + Mustache (KOStache is the module). Mustache is a logic-less templating language available in many languages. Kohana is my PHP MVC framework for choice.

Re: I Like PHP

#73

Post by masklinn »

skrebbel wrote: post #52
RyanMcGreal wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Python's got excellent documentation, both official and third party.

Oh! Well, I must've missed that train (haven't done py for a few years). A couple of years ago, you had to get your info from a mix of a tutorial and a library reference, and most functions were documented with 3-4 sentences max and no examples. Hmm, that said, that's still exactly what I find on the official Python site (e.g. http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#string-methods - PHP beats this by lightyears…

> e.g. http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#string-methods - PHP beats this by lightyears with a single page with examples and comments per function

1. Please explain why you need more explanation of these very basic functions

2. PHP's doc comments are unadulterated garbage

3. When things are worth documenting, they are: http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/collections.html

4. if you truly think string methods are insufficiently documented, it is very easy to contribute to the documentation.

Re: I Like PHP

#74

Post by ebiester »

yid wrote: post #46

From TFA: > * I have yet to see this kind of universal support for any other language than PHP. Not even Ruby on Rails, let alone Java, is available on mainstream providers, thereby validating the claim I made five years ago that Ruby on Rails won’t become mainstream (I regularly receive emails about this article asking me this question, and I keep responding “Nope, still not mainstream”).* If your provider doesn't s…

How about NearlyFreeSpeech and other low cost solutions? I keep a forum for old friends, as an example. This is not worth 20 dollars a month for me. Hosting my own blog is not worth 20 dollars a month for me. (It's barely worth the two dollars a month I spend on it.)

I have a friend with a webcomic and an art gallery page. She doesn't need ruby on rails and a 20 dollar a month host. PHP is a nice solution for her.

That's why PHP is still around.

Re: I Like PHP

#76

Post by masklinn »

yid wrote: post #60
Ixiaus wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do cheaper than that - WebFaction will give you an $8 a month shared hosting account and you can run anything you want! They have a really cool automated setup system for more involved projects like Django/Pyramid/Sinatra/Rails and lots of others.

...which leads me to think that the poster is confusing "mainstream" with "GoDaddy".

Or confusing "mainstream" with "free webhosting by your internet provider"

Re: I Like PHP

#77

Post by wccrawford »

encoderer wrote: post #19
wccrawford wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a feature of PHP because PHP isn't a compiled language. C, Java, anything .NET... They all require an added step in the middle.

You haven't done much asp.net development I take it?

Not for many years, no. I'd forgotten about it.

Still surprised I got voted down for that, since C and Java are still correct.

In fact, it's what I hated about Java web development the most... You had to compile, package, and deploy every time you made a tiny change. It was a nightmare.

Re: I Like PHP

#78

Post by ori_b »

masklinn wrote: post #62
skrebbel wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to defend PHP in any meaningful way then you can't just list things that can be done easily in almost every semi-modern web ecosystem Did you ever read Python's documentation? Or Ruby's? Or Java's? Show me one popular web programming language which has a full page, up to date, with examples and user comments and version incompatibility info, per function . Of course, it's just one point and I otherwise…

> Did you ever read Python's documentation? Yes. it's rather fucking good. > Show me one popular web programming language which has a full page, up to date, with examples and user comments and version incompatibility info, per function. Have you ever read Python's documentation? In the last ten years? Python's docs have a complete and readable description of the language[0] including its data model and the various co…

Don't forget being able to do this from within the interpreter:

    >>> print abs.__doc__
    abs(number) -> number

    Return the absolute value of the argument.
    >>> print xrange.__doc__
    
    xrange([start,] stop[, step]) -> xrange object

    Like range(), but instead of returning a list, returns an object that
    generates the numbers in the range on demand.  For looping, this is 
    slightly faster than range() and more memory efficient.

Re: I Like PHP

#79

Post by masklinn »

dillon wrote: post #2

You say if you make one assumption about C, you have to say the same about PHP. Well, PHP is academic, C is not. C is fast, PHP is not. I would only have agreed with your post if it were PHP and C++. C++ is academic and it's not slow but it is slower. You also say that you either like both PHP and C, or you like neither. Well what about Lua, Python... or any other embed-able language? Most Python programmers would sa…

> PHP is academic

Uh... could you explain how you arrived to this assertion? Because as far as I can see, PHP definitely is not academic. The bloody thing started as a hodge-podge collection of Perl scripts, and to this day it still does not have anything even remotely close to a formal grammar. A language in which `foo()[1];` is a syntax error even though `$a = foo(); $a[1];` is valid code most definitely is not academic.

Re: I Like PHP

#80

Post by ZeSmith »

acabal wrote: post #69

I like PHP because it's got a C-like syntax, which is a personal preference of mine. I also like it because it exposes the nuts-and-bolts of web development without any fuss, unlike, say, ASP.NET (though last I touched that was 3 years ago so doubtless things have changed since), and that it has a basic templating system built in, and that it's easy to install and deploy to. It definitely is deeply flawed for many re…

For ASP.NET, indeed, WebForms can be a bit violent since it's essentially an abstraction that tries, with mixed sucess, to make you forget you're writing for the Web.

ASP.NET MVC, which came out 2 years ago, is much closer to RoR and other similar frameworks, and is a better abstraction in my opinion.

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