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My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

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Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#321

Post by Zanneth »

dwild wrote: post #320
kcplate wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you make the argument the other way? Where employees owe their company more than their agreed upon effort? I don’t think so. But what exactly did Amazon do here that was immoral or not ethical? Honestly I don’t see where it failed. The company may not of met the author’s expectations, but I feel like his expectation was “pay me no matter my performance because I cannot afford to take a LOA when my wife is dying…

> But what exactly did Amazon do here that was immoral or not ethical? They made him "choose" between his wife and his works. Well they didn't actually made him choose, as the alternative was inconceivable, thus, they forced him to perform while his wife was in a death sentence. That's the unethical part.

So what should they have done? Paid him a $300k per year salary to do nothing?

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#322

Post by sangnoir »

Zanneth wrote: post #321
dwild wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But what exactly did Amazon do here that was immoral or not ethical? They made him "choose" between his wife and his works. Well they didn't actually made him choose, as the alternative was inconceivable, thus, they forced him to perform while his wife was in a death sentence. That's the unethical part.

So what should they have done? Paid him a $300k per year salary to do nothing?

They didn't have to pay it directly, but it is common for companies to have contingencies to pay employees 60% or more of their base salary "to do nothing: Amazon was already paying for, in part, long-term disability insurance, but the employee, manager, or - most surprisingly - HR were not in the headspace to even think of this, I assume because the default mode of is adversarial.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#323

Post by sesha8 »

gkya wrote: post #202

Reading the comments on this topic, I can't but feel validated for having quit my programming career right as it started. You lot sound so absorbed into your privilege that you can't even begin to think about the human side of the story, and it really shows that your "oh I can't begin to imageine how hard this is but..." is performative. It shows that you never really had to deal with this sort of stuff, be the perso…

As someone in this privileged position, the truth of what you've said, although a tough pill to swallow, has dawned on me many times.

We can't blind ourselves to the truth simply because it is convenient. What's true is true, and we only tarnish our souls by not acknowledging and acting on the truth.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#324

Post by _y5hn »

sangnoir wrote: post #209
crispyambulance wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that the employee was making ~300K, we can figure that his manager is probably making 50% to 100+% more. I find it mind-boggling that the manager could not find it within himself to give some slack to the employee. I guess maybe he didn't want to slow down the rate at which he was pulling in F-U money.

> I guess maybe he didn't want to slow down the rate at which he was pulling in F-U money. Bingo! The manager's 10-30% bonus was on the line; and they probably saw the stressed employee not quite through a human lense, but was more of a broken cog that was gumming up the works and tanking the manager's metrics/KPIs.

In my book, those are broken people and managers.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#325

Post by gkya »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #162
blocked_again wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good publicly funded health care system essentially work like an insurance.

OK, give any example of such good public fund. There is none, never was, never will.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:World_Map_minus_USA....

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#326

Post by scruple »

carlivar wrote: post #269
scruple wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. My (small, n=3) list of supreme assholes who I never want to work with again also ended up at Facebook.

I told Facebook recruiters to stop contacting me because I will never work for them due to my personal ethics. Maybe others have also done this and Facebook's talent pool is the remaining assholes.

I know a few people who've gone there and left within 1-2 years. I know exactly 1 person who is a very nice and competent engineer who was miserable there for their first year but they eventually found a team that they were happy with and they are still there today, probably 3-4 years later. But, yes, it seems to me that, especially given that last anecdote, the place is awash with egotistical assholes.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#327

Post by gkya »

pcglue wrote: post #267
gkya wrote: post #202

Reading the comments on this topic, I can't but feel validated for having quit my programming career right as it started. You lot sound so absorbed into your privilege that you can't even begin to think about the human side of the story, and it really shows that your "oh I can't begin to imageine how hard this is but..." is performative. It shows that you never really had to deal with this sort of stuff, be the perso…

May I ask what you did when you quit programming? Are you still doing the same thing now?

Social sciences, and, yes.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#328

Post by sjg007 »

There's the Family Medical Leave Act in the USA which protects your job but provides not your paycheck. Some states offer to pay a part of your salary or a flat amount but a lot do not.

I am sorry to hear about the cancer diagnosis. For anyone whose immediate family is impacted by cancer or any complex medical issue etc... and you are employed, you should consult with an employment law attorney in the beginning to get their advice as how the system works and how to protect your legal rights. This will cost a little money but it's about prevention, then preparation and documentation. The company consults lawyers, so should you.

The "consult with an attorney in advance advice" also pertains to any situation where you have complex needs, including for example public schools, special education and your children.

You have to understand how the system works.

Also my advice is to never ever switch jobs when you are dealing with a complex medical situation if you and your employer have a good history and they are acting like human beings should. That relationship is worth a lot.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#329

Post by otterley »

cycomachead wrote: post #299
madrox wrote: post #158

What sucks about stories like this is, while my heart breaks for what this guy went through, managers don't have the same luxury of defending their side of the story to Mother Jones. I worked as an EM at Amazon. I went into this ready to think he had a bad boss (because those definitely exist at Amazon), but after reading this I feel like there's another side to this that has more compassion than is being reflected h…

> If he wants to lash out at anything, I suggest lashing out at a system that requires us to work while going through such awful life circumstances. That man shouldn't have had to work. And yet, this man worked for a company who could very reasonably enact such a system if it desired to, at least for its own employees. There is no law which requires corporations to do the minimal amount required by the law. The fact…

On the other hand, if we as a society think the ethical floor is too low, we can pass laws that raise that floor - and companies will be bound to follow it.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#330

Post by otterley »

scruple wrote: post #326
carlivar wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I told Facebook recruiters to stop contacting me because I will never work for them due to my personal ethics. Maybe others have also done this and Facebook's talent pool is the remaining assholes.

I know a few people who've gone there and left within 1-2 years. I know exactly 1 person who is a very nice and competent engineer who was miserable there for their first year but they eventually found a team that they were happy with and they are still there today, probably 3-4 years later. But, yes, it seems to me that, especially given that last anecdote, the place is awash with egotistical assholes.

Culture flows down from the top.
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