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YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

washingtonpost.com

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Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#361

Post by megous »

nimbius wrote: post #189
mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

>I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices first, youtube isnt where open discussion by moderate voices happens. Its a cavalcade of endlessly random videos promoting everything from free energy to colloidal silver cures and get rich quick schemes. Second, the topic of conversation is vaccination methodology during an ongoing pandemic in which a sizeable quantity…

> first, youtube isnt where open discussion by moderate voices happens. Its a cavalcade of endlessly random videos promoting everything from free energy to colloidal silver cures and get rich quick schemes.

Youtube also has people doing educational videos. I can watch recorded lectures there, if I want. Why do we need a gatekeeper for that?

It also has videos of people just sharing their experiences. Should that be banned to, if those are negative about the vaccine? On what basis?

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#362

Post by Nesze »

Age old follow-up question. Who decides what anti-vaccine content is? Who is going to draw the fine line? How simple (i.e. black and white) is to make this distinction? Do you trust that person / entity making these decisions for you and your peers?

But even without defending free speach, looks to me that when you start censoring you just create multiple new problems with zero solution. So even from a design point of view it's clearly a bad thing.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#363

Post by downandout »

listless wrote: post #174

My wife is very vaccine hesitant, and every time they make a move like this to block content or take it down, it only strengthens her position. She thinks they’re taking it down because they don’t want people to know the truth. The only thing worse than bad ideas is the suppression of bad ideas. It’s tragic that we knew this at some point, but are going to have to figure it all back out again the hard way.

She thinks they’re taking it down because they don’t want people to know the truth.

To some degree, that’s true. While the vaccines are overall relatively highly effective and safe, there is no denying that tens of thousands of serious injuries and deaths have occurred as a result of them. Overall the benefits strongly outweigh the risks, but there are risks nonetheless. This is not abnormal for anything that is injected into hundreds of millions of people.

However, platforms like YouTube - cheered on by the CDC and an incredibly heavy handed Biden administration - have decided that people don’t have a right to learn about these cases of “adverse reactions”. As well intentioned as they may be, hiding obvious facts from people calls into question everything else that they are being told. It only emboldens the vaccine hesitant when the powers that be are less than honest and forthcoming about the potential negative outcomes of the vaccine, regardless of how rare they might be.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#364

Post by belter »

commandlinefan wrote: post #182
listless wrote: post #174

My wife is very vaccine hesitant, and every time they make a move like this to block content or take it down, it only strengthens her position. She thinks they’re taking it down because they don’t want people to know the truth. The only thing worse than bad ideas is the suppression of bad ideas. It’s tragic that we knew this at some point, but are going to have to figure it all back out again the hard way.

> She thinks they’re taking it down because they don’t want people to know the truth. Hell, I always thought anti-vaxxers were looneys and was first in line for the COVID shot when it was available in March... but even I'm starting to be convinced that the anti-vaxxers might have a point because of all this effort to silence them. I'm becoming vaccine... remorseful?

Employees, Scientists and Managers of Vaccine producers, when recorded with hidden cameras, also seem to be vaccine remorseful...

"Johnson & Johnson: Children Don’t Need the ‘F*cking’ COVID Vaccine Because There Are ‘Unknown Repercussions Down the Road’ …"

https://www.projectveritas.com/news/johnson-and-johnson-chil...

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#365

Post by xrd »

I'm against censorship. But I'm also against algorithmic promotion of dubious information.

As an example, several people I know personally told me they saw videos of black lives matter activists and antifa starting fires here in Oregon. It's ridiculous. But, there is enough evidence to show that those videos were created and promoted in the right way such that YouTube and Facebook put them into their viral loops and lots of succeptible people thought they were the truth.

How do we strike a balance between letting information be free and at the same time prevent black box algorithms and evil actors from hacking our society?

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#366

Post by datavirtue »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #249
listless wrote: post #174

My wife is very vaccine hesitant, and every time they make a move like this to block content or take it down, it only strengthens her position. She thinks they’re taking it down because they don’t want people to know the truth. The only thing worse than bad ideas is the suppression of bad ideas. It’s tragic that we knew this at some point, but are going to have to figure it all back out again the hard way.

> She thinks they’re taking it down because they don’t want people to know the truth. The sad truth is, they do this just because of fucking ad revenue . There's no grand conspiracy against, or even for anti-vaccination movements. It's just people selling the world for a quick buck. And some people are still shooting me weird looks when I keep telling them that advertising is a cancer on modern society.

Maybe because when they hear "advertising" they think car commercial or magazine ad and associate that with your comment. Those can be very good things. Mechanizing disinformation to pool people into cults and sell them to the highest bidder is not advertisement...it is what we call "big tech" until we can figure out another word.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#367

Post by tomrod »

mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

> I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices

I argue that it won't. We have had over a year for Anti-vaccination advocates to make their case. In all instances the goalposts tend to move. Spotlighting continual questioning and false claims benefits no one. It's time to move on.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#368

Post by colordrops »

ryandrake wrote: post #359

A little off topic, but I wish we could stop using this nice-sounding "hesitant" euphemism. Hesitant implies that people are weighing options and open to changing their minds. With the amount of time they have been available and the overabundance of evidence that the COVID vaccines are safe, effective, and that they decrease hospitalizations and death, I find it very hard to believe that anyone is still "on the fence…

It's certainly better than "anti-vaxxer" which labels them and buckets them as crazy and makes them dig their heels in further. If the goal is to convince people to get vaccinated, belittling them is not the right approach.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#369

Post by HyperRational »

commandlinefan wrote: post #182
listless wrote: post #174

My wife is very vaccine hesitant, and every time they make a move like this to block content or take it down, it only strengthens her position. She thinks they’re taking it down because they don’t want people to know the truth. The only thing worse than bad ideas is the suppression of bad ideas. It’s tragic that we knew this at some point, but are going to have to figure it all back out again the hard way.

> She thinks they’re taking it down because they don’t want people to know the truth. Hell, I always thought anti-vaxxers were looneys and was first in line for the COVID shot when it was available in March... but even I'm starting to be convinced that the anti-vaxxers might have a point because of all this effort to silence them. I'm becoming vaccine... remorseful?

Do you think the same about flat-earthers? Sometimes people are just plain wrong. Anyone smart enough to work in IT should be able to see the many flaws in anti-vaxx arguments and recognize how effective vaccines are at preventing diseases.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#370

Post by tomrod »

ryandrake wrote: post #359

A little off topic, but I wish we could stop using this nice-sounding "hesitant" euphemism. Hesitant implies that people are weighing options and open to changing their minds. With the amount of time they have been available and the overabundance of evidence that the COVID vaccines are safe, effective, and that they decrease hospitalizations and death, I find it very hard to believe that anyone is still "on the fence…

Agreed. Anti-vaccine advocate is more accurate at this point. Denialist is harsh, but fits.
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