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YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

washingtonpost.com

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Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#131

Post by inglor_cz »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #117
mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

The wackos are the ones creating the context in which moderate voices lose their power. If you want moderation, you have to remove the extreme BS and the algorithms that thrive on it, which process buries moderates and makes their views anathema to the polarized extremes. Why allow polarized extremes to form on your private, I must emphasize privately owned, platform? This isn't the public square, freedom of speech d…

If you want moderation, you need human moderators.

The trouble with the tech giants is that their "free service paid by ads" business model completely collapses into red numbers if they start employing adequate numbers of people for that purpose.

So they resort to artificial intelligence, which is worse than natural stupidity in this regard.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#132

Post by toyg »

OJFord wrote: post #78
afavour wrote: post #40

Time for repeat showing of the free speech debate we’ve already had a dozen times, whoopee! As ever, IMO, the problem isn’t the hosting or the banning, it’s the algorithms. I don’t care whether YouTube hosts anti-vaccine activists, I care that they actively promote anti-vaccine content to users simply because it’s proven to get clicks and earn them money. Bans like this look incredibly stupid when you realise YouTube…

> proven to get clicks and earn them money Aren't they already 'demonetised' (as Youtube terms its withdrawal of adverts and hence money)? I agree though, simply not recommending them (i.e. you can be linked to them, or get them from search results only) would be better.

It's all very simple, considering Youtube has had a feature to keep videos out of their search indexes since, I don't know, forever...? It's effectively a form of voluntary shadowbanning, used by people who just want to embed videos somewhere else or, y'know, simply keep them somewhat private. YT could just say "right, anything we object to, gets removed from the search index." Two-minutes job. If you want to be more proactive, stop them from embedding too, so they can't be reposted elsewhere. The videos are then effectively neutered and only the already-nutcase will see them, limiting the virality.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#133

Post by silicon2401 »

mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

Society in general has been making chilling moves away from free speech, and this has been accelerated by the pandemic. I hope the pendulum will swing the other way, but it's also possible to cross a tipping point where we just lose our way.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#134

Post by deelowe »

Of course it will. Welcome to the new propaganda. Same as the old propaganda.

Free speech is the act of standing up for those who you disagree with simply because you believe they have the right to be heard. In today's world of "woke" content creators, everyone seems to miss this point. What started out as fairly clear cut issues such as racism and homophobia has now bled into grey areas around vaccines and gain of function research.

On the latter, should we not be concerned about this? We're in the middle of a global pandemic and we're not allowed to discuss whether GoF research is too risky? We're not allowed to discuss the nuances of what a "lab leak" may really entail? For example, I think the theory that a researcher collecting specimens from the wild accidentally infecting people in wuhan or themselves holds a lot of merit. Yet, it cannot be discussed.

We should be outraged. And, back on the topic of anti-vaxers. They kind of have a point. Why should they trust the government, the CDC, the WHO and the like? What have they done to prove they are trustworthy at this point? Shutting down open discussion around this topic will only make the situation worse, not better.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#135

Post by rvz »

Another day another ban-hammering from YouTube; so what.

It is their private platform and if you sign up you agreed to their T&Cs and they can choose to ban or remove whoever they want. Mistake or not, robot or not.

They will never change and it will only get worse.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#136

Post by josephcsible »

ookblah wrote: post #50

Someone want to throw out there a better way to combat disinformation than just armchair criticizing their decision? I almost feel like people are siding with the anti-vaxxers out of "principle". Just a no win situation. It's too easy for bad characters to screw up an entire system with little effort (look at trolls, spammers, etc). Either you moderate everyone and slippery slope down into censorship where the tools…

> I almost feel like people are siding with the anti-vaxxers out of "principle".

You say that like it's a bad thing. If we don't stop the censorship now, it'll be too late to stop it in a year or two when we're the ones being censored for some reason.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#137

Post by ethbr0 »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #117
mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

The wackos are the ones creating the context in which moderate voices lose their power. If you want moderation, you have to remove the extreme BS and the algorithms that thrive on it, which process buries moderates and makes their views anathema to the polarized extremes. Why allow polarized extremes to form on your private, I must emphasize privately owned, platform? This isn't the public square, freedom of speech d…

The moderation is the problem. Because it's fundamentally a cost center, and will never be resourced sufficiently to do a nuanced job.

Consequently, you get someone making minimum wage banning videos because they're not saying only positive things about vaccines.

And Google and Facebook won't care. Because moderation is a cost intended to curb the worst PR scandals, but content is profit.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#138

Post by avianlyric »

chrisco255 wrote: post #41

Techno-fascism rears its ugly head once more. These mRNA shots aren't flawless medications with zero side effects. People are getting strokes. People are getting heart inflammation. It's not even working against new variants. The emperor really doesn't have clothes. I've had dozens of vaccines in my life. The Covid vaccine might be the worst-performing vaccine of all time as far as effectiveness goes. You need 3 boos…

> I've had dozens of vaccines in my life. The Covid vaccine might be the worst-performing vaccine of all time as far as effectiveness goes.

Funny thing about those other vaccines. They protect against viruses that we already have collective heard immunity for.

As it happens, it turns out that herd immunity substantial reduces community transmission, and thus makes vaccines appear more effective. Without that, you’re pretty much always gonna get breakthrough infections.

So you want the COVID vaccine to be as effective as other vaccines. Then get vaxxed, and get everyone in your community vaxxed.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#139

Post by capdeck »

OJFord wrote: post #78
afavour wrote: post #40

Time for repeat showing of the free speech debate we’ve already had a dozen times, whoopee! As ever, IMO, the problem isn’t the hosting or the banning, it’s the algorithms. I don’t care whether YouTube hosts anti-vaccine activists, I care that they actively promote anti-vaccine content to users simply because it’s proven to get clicks and earn them money. Bans like this look incredibly stupid when you realise YouTube…

> proven to get clicks and earn them money Aren't they already 'demonetised' (as Youtube terms its withdrawal of adverts and hence money)? I agree though, simply not recommending them (i.e. you can be linked to them, or get them from search results only) would be better.

> Aren't they already 'demonetised'...

That affects only content creator. YouTube, even if not directly profiting from ads, profits indirectly from you staying on the site and moving on to other 'monetized' videos eventually.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#140

Post by invisible »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #107
mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

Okay, but we really need to talk about what “stifling of public debate” means. Companies are routinely pressured to fire people in public positions who espouse pro-Palestinian views. Across the nation, states are enacting legal bans against teaching the history of racism, and firing teachers who dare to make students uncomfortable (by the same people who decried “safe spaces” less than a decade ago). Plenty of people…

We are on a news site focused mostly on tech, startups, and entrepreneurship that often just has other intellectual conversations. It makes sense that the general flavor of submissions leans tech.

> On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.

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