Detroit in Ruins • Hacker News Board

Re: Detroit in Ruins

#61

Post by lukejduncan » Wed, Aug 10, 2011, 5:14 PM UTC

_delirium wrote: post #54

mgkimsal wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was Rome celebrating its ruins in 400AD? Surely there's some interesting things to celebrate, but a 50 year old crackhouse that's still occupied by crack addicts probably isn't one of them. What makes Rome's 'ruins' great is - well, probably a bunch of things - but certainly the longetivity is one of them. There's nothing impressive about rotting crack houses.

There are a few abandoned buildings in Detroit that might count as having grandeur, like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Central_Station , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Army_of_the_Republic_Buil... . I agree that acres of rotting single-family homes isn't so impressive.

My real point is this: Detroiters are in denial. They all cry that the media and the world doesn't portray them properly while pretending that nothing is wrong with the city.

Celebrate the beauty that exists (Michigan Central was actually what I was thinking of with the Rome comment) and take advantage of the rest. Do you know how cheap it is to live in the city? Yes: there are acres of abandoned rotting land, but what's keeping Detroit from turning it's warehouses into startups? Imagine SOMA on a city scale.

Re: Detroit in Ruins

#62

Post by ddw » Wed, Aug 10, 2011, 5:14 PM UTC

At my last job I biked through North Philly everyday. There are some ok neighborhoods, but there are plenty of abandoned strips that look like they were bombed in WWII.

It's so sad because you can look at them and say "that used to be a department store and that was a grocery store" and you can almost imagine the people walking around in the 70s (the last time there was probably activity).

But these Detroit photos with theaters and libraries and rec centers closed....damn.

Re: Detroit in Ruins

#63

Post by nowarninglabel » Wed, Aug 10, 2011, 5:20 PM UTC

rmason wrote: post #49

Some see chaos, others see opportunity. The story you're not reading about Detroit is that after hitting rock bottom in 2008 it's starting to turn around. I've got a friend Henry Balanon who was recruited to a new startup, Detroit Labs, which is backed by Detroit Venture Partners http://www.modeldmedia.com/startupnews/detroitlabs080911.asp... Though it's been slow in getting started because of the state's right to fa…

Tooting our horn again, but Kiva is another one that sees opportunity: http://www.kiva.org/detroit

The loans we put up for Detroit were funded in a matter of hours, so there was also plenty of folk who thought it worth funding.

Re: Detroit in Ruins

#64

Post by ikarous » Wed, Aug 10, 2011, 5:22 PM UTC

winestock wrote: post #60

jacksonpollack wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you tend to go there only when dealing with foreclosed homes, perhaps you aren't seeing some of the nicer places? I have plenty of friends who live in Detroit and love it. I used to live there myself and loved it. Yes, there is ruin porn a-plenty, and many nasty areas. But there are also neighborhoods where you can live for really cheap and be part of a great, caring community. Of course, I'm sure my thoughts o…

Dibble's First Law of Sociology: Some do; some don't. Accentuating the positive is cold comfort. Tenth-century Rome hosted the development of Gregorian chant and papal charters for the first universities. Focusing on those positive developments doesn't change the fact that Rome was a step or two above a cow town compared to contemporary Constantinople or, better yet, first-century Rome. Of course Detroit has nice pla…

"What makes this ruin porn all the more infuriating -- and disturbing -- is that it started when the cool people with the right ideas from the Ivy League schools stepped in."

Post hoc, ergo proper hoc? I don't necessarily disagree with you, but don't you think that there might be more contributing factors? In particular, the decline of the American auto industry comes to mind in regards to Detroit.

Re: Detroit in Ruins

#65

Post by matwood » Wed, Aug 10, 2011, 5:23 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #43

jcampbell1 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, we also have squatters rights, but the more common thing is a thug claims to be the "property manager", and rents space to many bums for $10/month. Smartly, he signs 2 years leases with the bums, and because of strong renters rights laws, the actual owner has to respect the leases. Now if the owner wants to rehab the building, he must go through a legal eviction process, or buyout the leases from all the s…

So the real property owner has to respect leases that someone who doesn't own the property made? Why don't I just go rent out someone's home right now from under them, and get protection for my 'leases'?

There's a difference between trying to rent out something that the owner lives in and takes care of and squatting on something that has been abandoned by the owner.

The problem is that many of the properties are likely in legal limbo through foreclosure, bank ownership, and auctions. Once a new true owner finally takes over it might have been years since the last real owner. That's when squaters rights start to come into play.

Re: Detroit in Ruins

#66

Post by matwood » Wed, Aug 10, 2011, 5:33 PM UTC

neutronicus wrote: post #9

noelwelsh wrote: post #7

I'd like to know more background on this. Why don't people move into the empty buildings? Housing in the UK is fairly scarce and empty buildings are likely to be colonised by squatters. After ten years or so squatters can actually claim the property. I thought artists would like the opportunity to get a big studio at a discount rate, and hackers who are bootstrapping would sure make their capital go a lot further in…

Detroit is crime-ridden and cold. Why not just move to another part of the US?

That's been the thought of most of the country for a long time as many either move to the coast or want to move to the coast and just can't afford it. A great second choice (first for some) is a mountain city like Denver (or nearby Boulder). Or, if you really don't care about mountains or ocean then a city like Austin at least has great weather and overall vibe.

To each his own, but I will never live in the middle of the country and will always either need to be near the beach or mountains (I did the mountains the last couple years and am again near the beach).

Re: Detroit in Ruins

#67

Post by winestock » Wed, Aug 10, 2011, 5:34 PM UTC

ikarous wrote: post #64

winestock wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dibble's First Law of Sociology: Some do; some don't. Accentuating the positive is cold comfort. Tenth-century Rome hosted the development of Gregorian chant and papal charters for the first universities. Focusing on those positive developments doesn't change the fact that Rome was a step or two above a cow town compared to contemporary Constantinople or, better yet, first-century Rome. Of course Detroit has nice pla…

"What makes this ruin porn all the more infuriating -- and disturbing -- is that it started when the cool people with the right ideas from the Ivy League schools stepped in." Post hoc, ergo proper hoc? I don't necessarily disagree with you, but don't you think that there might be more contributing factors? In particular, the decline of the American auto industry comes to mind in regards to Detroit.

The American automobile industry didn't really get hit by imports until the Oil Shocks of the 1970s. By then, the productive population of Detroit was already fleeing to the suburbs. Also, if the decline of the American automobile industry explains the decline of Detroit, then the suburbs of Detroit would have declined as well, instead of expanding. Furthermore, the decline of the American automobile industry does not explain why similar declines occurred in the other cities which I mentioned.

Re: Detroit in Ruins

#68

Post by jharding » Wed, Aug 10, 2011, 5:40 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #57

saturdaysaint wrote: post #6

This is unsympathetically referred to as "ruin porn" around Detroit. Yes, there are an exceptional amount of abandoned buildings (there are about 600,000 people in a city that could probably comfortably hold 3x that), but there are also world class universities, sports arenas, restaurants concert venues, houses and apartments, etc. http://www.viceland.com/int/v16n8/htdocs/something-something...

sports arenas One of them sold for under $600,000 a couple years ago! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverdome#Sale

The Silverdome is in Pontiac which is about a 30 minute drive from Detroit and the Lions moved out of there about 10 years ago so that's not too relevant to this topic.

Comerica Park, Ford Field, and Joe Louis Arena are actually in Detroit and they're all great facilities. Comerica Park and Ford Field are across the street from each other and both are state of the art. The area surrounding those 2 stadiums is one of the nicest parts of Detroit. Joe Louis is located on the water, a couple miles south of Comerica and Ford Field, and while it might be old, it still has a great atmosphere and is probably my favorite out of the 3.

Re: Detroit in Ruins

#69

Post by jcampbell1 » Wed, Aug 10, 2011, 5:46 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #43

jcampbell1 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, we also have squatters rights, but the more common thing is a thug claims to be the "property manager", and rents space to many bums for $10/month. Smartly, he signs 2 years leases with the bums, and because of strong renters rights laws, the actual owner has to respect the leases. Now if the owner wants to rehab the building, he must go through a legal eviction process, or buyout the leases from all the s…

So the real property owner has to respect leases that someone who doesn't own the property made? Why don't I just go rent out someone's home right now from under them, and get protection for my 'leases'?

The law protects the renters, not the false property manager. The bums actually live in the building and pay rent. I have rented apartments plenty of times, and never once verified that the landlord is the actual property owner. I just assume I am paying the building owner or their representative. The bums are making the same assumption, and deserve renter's rights just the same. I am sure the lease could be invalidated if you could prove the bums knew the property manager did not represent the owner, but that is just as much of a legal hassle.

Re: Detroit in Ruins

#70

Post by irrumator » Wed, Aug 10, 2011, 5:46 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #46

lukejduncan wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Detroit, and in high school use to sneak into these abandoned buildings and take pictures. I loved it, and it was a distinct characteristic of the city for me. At the time I would have called myself an urban explorer. There are many Detroit cheerleaders in and around the city who would dismiss this as "ruin porn" and then bash whatever media outlet published the articles. Detroit has perpetually been in a st…

Was Rome celebrating its ruins in 400AD? Surely there's some interesting things to celebrate, but a 50 year old crackhouse that's still occupied by crack addicts probably isn't one of them. What makes Rome's 'ruins' great is - well, probably a bunch of things - but certainly the longetivity is one of them. There's nothing impressive about rotting crack houses.

To be pedantic, Rome wasn't in ruins in 400AD. The Visigoths wouldn't sack it for another decade and the Vandals plunder and raped the city proper more than 50 years later. The last nominal imperator was dethroned by a barbarian in 476AD.