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My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

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Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#311

I am quite pessimistic about Amazon and its influence, having worked there for about a year. In my (admittedly jaded) opinion, the company encourages this kind of dehumanizing behavior toward people. That said, this isn't new and it isn't limited to Amazon. My brother died of cancer at the age of 10. My dad's manager gave him a bad performance review and said that he let his son's death affect his work. Other people…

> My dad's manager gave him a bad performance review and said that he let his son's death affect his work

Wow... what kind of person would you be if this didn't affect your performance?

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loyalty is a farce, there is none. And the vast majority of FAANG employees are replaceable.

Not really, compensation is off the charts right now.

a) highly competitive landscape b) irreplaceable workers

pick one

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#313
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A thought: be nice to recruiters. They're generally nice people who are underpaid for the work they do (usually). They're in a really tough business. And if you want a selfish take: Maybe today they're working for Amazon, but tomorrow they may be doing the same job at your dream company. They have too many people to try reaching out to, and they may remember your name.

Thoughts on responding at all? Does anyone expect it? It's not some humble brag but simple fact that I feel inundated and incapable of responding to all the messages I get. I leave every recruiter on read until I'm looking for a new job. Bad etiquette?

It'll be fine now, but when the next downturn hits you'll probably regret it.

I've gotten a bunch of interesting opportunities over the years by virtue of being nice to recruiters, even when I'm not looking.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#314

I really don’t understand why people work for Amazon. Low ball offers and long work hours. No thanks.

The linked article is about an Amazon employee making $300K in Tennessee (far from a high-cost area in the US). That is a 99th percentile salary and 97th percentile household total income for TN.

[deleted]

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#315
post #158

What sucks about stories like this is, while my heart breaks for what this guy went through, managers don't have the same luxury of defending their side of the story to Mother Jones. I worked as an EM at Amazon. I went into this ready to think he had a bad boss (because those definitely exist at Amazon), but after reading this I feel like there's another side to this that has more compassion than is being reflected h…

> He was at turns informally warned, encouraged to take leave, and offered severance. Both these options would leave him without ongoing income and would do nothing to help him as a person[1]. They'd neatly solve the employer's problems though, and it's apparent who you more closely identify with in this story. 1. As someone else mentioned, short- and/or long-term disability was the mutually beneficial solution, but…

You are correct about the GP’s bias. Whenever Amazon comes up, David helps his former employer dodge the blame: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateEnd=1632787200&dateRange=custom&...

Other Amazon EM’s and some high level ICs have a reputation for kneejerk denial of abuse in HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27570837 (just one example):

Speaking by as another EM, “I identify as a former X so X is good!” is a normal defense mechanism. But Amazon’s uniquely toxic working environment makes their cognitive dissonance notable .

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You go in and say "Hey my wife is dying and my performance is probably going to be impacted, can something be done?", HR may opt to 'protect' the company by starting to build a case for terminating a low performing employee. That’s the cynical approach, but most companies don’t actually want to lose valuable employees. This is why they have disability insurance coverage in the first place to help cover those gaps (…

"but most companies don’t actually want to lose valuable employees." The whole point is that their actual actions prove that they do not consider any employees valuable.

I found myself in the same situation only a few months ago. I was one of the so-called “valuable employees” and was a primary go-to person at the time. In 2020 we lost around 60% of the total personnel count (40% from layoffs, then more and more over time from attrition) from our entire division so they decided to consolidate teams together meaning I wasn’t only doing the job I was hired to do, now I had to do the work that 4 different dedicated teams had to do at the same time. At the start of 2021, my previous employer decided to shift focus purely on cost saving measures in order to make up for the lost revenue in 2020 and slashed ALL planned work for 2021, was constantly told no on all of my requests to do interesting work and work I wanted to do, and was told not to expect any training budget for the foreseeable future and not to expect any merit raises for the year. I did warn them that they needed to throw me a bone … they needed to give me SOMETHING to stay… some glimmer of hope. And they still said no. That is what made my decision.

It was clear they didn’t care about keeping “top talent” anymore. They just wanted button pushers - and that is what they have now. I have heard of big issues going on now, but it is no longer my problem. Obviously I am no longer there and much happier where I am at now.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, compensation is off the charts right now.

a) highly competitive landscape b) irreplaceable workers pick one

What? The “competitive landscape” is for companies trying to hire people who can deliver anything, thus creating workers who absolutely cannot be replaced without severe ramp-up times on many projects.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#318
post #276
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't a couple of weeks though. From the timelines in the story it was more than a year. Would you expect to keep getting paid on paternity leave for 2 years?

> Would you expect to keep getting paid on paternity leave for 2 years? First of all, the article does not talk about leaving for 2 years. I feel you are intentionally trying to put a strawman to avoif debating the real problem. Secondly, the article mentions performance. According to the article, the person in question was pressured into improving performance or get the axe, in a period where his manager knew very w…

I don’t think it’s a straw man, time matters. He joined mid - end 2018 and was fired end of 2020. We don’t know when the issues started, but it very well could’ve been close to 2 years.

My point is the amount of time matters. I don’t think anyone expects a company to keep paying an underperforming employee forever even if there is a good reason. Netflix has a full year paid parental leave policy. That doesn’t mean you can just keep having a child every year and never work.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#319
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing extraordinary about Amazon having a 2 year tenure average. Here's a somewhat dated (I'd guess it's gotten even shorter since) article from 2018 listing many more company tenures: https://www.inc.com/business-insider/tech-companies-employee... There are many known companies with ~2 years give or take.

Amazonian blue badge here. Throwaway for the obvious reasons. Last year my two pizza team saw close to half our team members leaving, some with what I call mob-style coerced goodbyes during a daily and some because they were fed up with the absurd working conditions caused largely by the senior manager's career-building goals and his "wins are due to me and losses are due to my stupid minions who need to be fired" me…

Don't doubt it. It sounds horrific, and I hope you land elsewhere. Your tenure of ~2 years give or take is very close to Facebook's ~2.5 years average. I'll only compare Amazon to Facebook in this case because both are known to have engineering teams / cultures that can be very results driven all else be damned.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People seem to think that once they are hired that their employer owes them something more than the agreed upon compensation for the work they agreed to do for them. Legally, no. Morally and ethically, yes they do. And the consequences for breaking a moral or ethical 'rule' is loss of reputation, which is exactly what this post is doing to them. And if companies keep doing this kind of thing, as a society we might…

Would you make the argument the other way? Where employees owe their company more than their agreed upon effort? I don’t think so. But what exactly did Amazon do here that was immoral or not ethical? Honestly I don’t see where it failed. The company may not of met the author’s expectations, but I feel like his expectation was “pay me no matter my performance because I cannot afford to take a LOA when my wife is dying…

> But what exactly did Amazon do here that was immoral or not ethical?

They made him "choose" between his wife and his works. Well they didn't actually made him choose, as the alternative was inconceivable, thus, they forced him to perform while his wife was in a death sentence.

That's the unethical part.

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