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The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

blog.fogcreek.com

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Re: The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

#51

Post by clistctrl »

JimmyL wrote: post #49

An old company of mine had Nightingale CXOs ( http://www.nightingalechairs.com/cxo_home.html ) as the standard issue developer chair. I remember the first few days I was there, not really getting it - the thing is this complex-looking chair that you'd think would be infinitely comfortable, and mine...wasn't. And then around day three, just as I was finishing all my HR stuff and the get-to-know-you tours (and starting…

Professional chair-adjustment coordinator - proof new technology just shifts jobs, not destroys them.

Re: The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

#52

Post by gte910h »

msluyter wrote: post #12

Personally, I hate Aeron chairs with a passion. Obviously, the overall point here is to keep developers happy, so I'd presume FogCreek allows developers to opt for different/better chairs. I just don't understand why these are considered the pinnacle of comfort. Is it just me? Am I the only person who finds everything about them to hideously uncomfortable, from the jabby knife in the back lumbar support to the circul…

Take out the back support. AAAAAH, so comfy.

Sounds like the height or tilt adjust was out of wack if the front bar is putting that much pressure on the back of your legs (I literally cannot stand eating dinner on square bar stools, I empathize with leg circulation getting shut off, and was one of the reasons I bought one of these).

Re: The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

#53

Post by gte910h »

bho wrote: post #35
msluyter wrote: post #12

Personally, I hate Aeron chairs with a passion. Obviously, the overall point here is to keep developers happy, so I'd presume FogCreek allows developers to opt for different/better chairs. I just don't understand why these are considered the pinnacle of comfort. Is it just me? Am I the only person who finds everything about them to hideously uncomfortable, from the jabby knife in the back lumbar support to the circul…

I HATE these chairs too. However, someone recently told me that they come in different sizes, so maybe mine was just the wrong size for me. I've also heard that what seems comfortable might not be best for you too.

There are 3 back rest configurations too: Lower back support, lubar support and no support.

I'm most comfortable with the no support option. You can convert either of the other two to this option by removing the black thing (it slides off sort of).

As far as sizes go, most tall and/or slightly overweight men need the C sized one, but definitely get a proper sized one.

If you go to high end office stores (sam flax here in atlanta) they'll have a few different sizes.

Re: The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

#54

Post by spenrose »

spolsky wrote: post #45
wheels wrote: post #32

What I always find a little bit suspect about these posts – especially from FogCreek – is that it's really, "The Price of Dev Happiness As Long As You Define Happiness The Way Your Boss (Me) Does". I prefer sitting cross-legged with a 13" laptop on a mat on the floor. I've had most of the things mentioned in the article and prefer my mat on the floor, thank you very much. But I'm just a random example. More of what I…

I love the way people on the Internet always find a way to misinterpret every post in the worst possible way, no matter how little sense they make. After reading a detailed article about how we spend over $5000 to make sure our developers are comfortable at work, do you really think that we then CHAIN them to an Aeron chair and REQUIRE that they use 30" monitors even if they prefer sitting cross-legged on the floor w…

The problem with viral* marketing is that you give up control of the message.

* (or whatever the correct term is for HN-linked recruitment-ads-as-blog-posts)

Re: The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

#55

Post by krschultz »

The real piece of math missing from this is the cost of the real estate. I'd take a cheap chair and desk in NYC over a $1000 chair at a $1500 desk in the suburbs. The surroundings matter as much as the inside of the office. But a lot of companies move to the suburbs because rent becomes prohibitive on a large scale.

Re: The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

#56

Post by mgkimsal »

phuff wrote: post #46
kenjackson wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't do serious dev work on a laptop. Too underpowered. Everyone here gets a laptop, but it's for working in bed, or on the road, at your child's birth, etc... But for day to day dev work, a high-end workstation is a fair bit more productive. At least for the type of dev work we do.

I sure hope they give you some time off at your child's birth... :)

Didn't he just have some time off nine months ago?

Re: The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

#57

Post by gte910h »

synnik wrote: post #36

One size does not fit all. I prefer a 99 dollar ergonomic chair, as sitting and standing both exacerbate my bad hips. I prefer 3 22" monitors at half the cost of a 30". I prefer total resolution available, not size of the monitor. I just saved him $1500 bucks, and I'm happier than I would be if I was forced into their setup.

I'm sure he'd be happy to buy that as well.

Edit: He honestly says that elsewhere in the replies (user spolsky).

Re: The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

#58

Post by wheels »

spolsky wrote: post #45
wheels wrote: post #32

What I always find a little bit suspect about these posts – especially from FogCreek – is that it's really, "The Price of Dev Happiness As Long As You Define Happiness The Way Your Boss (Me) Does". I prefer sitting cross-legged with a 13" laptop on a mat on the floor. I've had most of the things mentioned in the article and prefer my mat on the floor, thank you very much. But I'm just a random example. More of what I…

I love the way people on the Internet always find a way to misinterpret every post in the worst possible way, no matter how little sense they make. After reading a detailed article about how we spend over $5000 to make sure our developers are comfortable at work, do you really think that we then CHAIN them to an Aeron chair and REQUIRE that they use 30" monitors even if they prefer sitting cross-legged on the floor w…

After reading a detailed article about how we spend [...] do you really think that we then CHAIN them to an Aeron chair [...]

The place that I worked that had such nice equipment basically did exactly that: you were given your standard issue equipment with virtually zero flexibility (amusingly other than keyboard and mouse, just like your setup).

That said, the impression mostly comes from the way that you write about the place. You use a lot of absolute terms. There's a lot of talk about best and ideal and happy and then very precise definitions of those things. This gives readers the impression that while you have a very luxurious office, that it's also one that's quite rigid.

Honestly, I'd be surprised if that wholly misses the mark. You're obviously a really smart guy that wants to do well by your employees, and good on you for that. But it also sounds like you're running a grand experiment at FogCreek where you're (mostly by fiat) deciding what you think is best for a company's culture. That may actually produce a place that for the type of folks that get hired there really clicks. I don't think I'd be one of those sorts.

Re: The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

#60

Post by ams6110 »

potatolicious wrote: post #17
pasbesoin wrote: post #11

Waiting for the next post: Next: the real cost of private offices. You should include the cost of effective insulation/sound-proofing. (I've seen/heard it done reasonably well with expanding foam during wall construction.) P.S. Hey, folks, the original author, Rich Armstrong (richarmstrong), actually replied in a response this comment, but you killed it off -- it's dead, now. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28687…

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't like private offices. It just seems like a separation between myself and the rest of the team. I actually like open seating arrangements. When I need some serious concentration and can tolerate no distractions, a solid pair of noise-canceling headphones does the trick.

It's a matter of preference to be sure. I've never had a totally private office. I've had high-walled cubicles, which I found tolerable with headphones, shared offices, which were likewise OK as long as your roomie wasn't too chatty, and open "bullpens" which I think are the worst.

We're moving soon into a new building where it's mostly open "bullpen" seating. They have provided a handful of "focus booths" where individuals or small groups can retire if they feel they need some isolation. We've been preached at about studies that show that "open, collaborative" spaces are the best.... by managers/administrators who are all going to have private offices! Classic "do as I say not as I do." My guess is that I won't be sticking around.

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