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The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

blog.fogcreek.com

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Re: The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

#41

Post by ry0ohki »

msluyter wrote: post #12

Personally, I hate Aeron chairs with a passion. Obviously, the overall point here is to keep developers happy, so I'd presume FogCreek allows developers to opt for different/better chairs. I just don't understand why these are considered the pinnacle of comfort. Is it just me? Am I the only person who finds everything about them to hideously uncomfortable, from the jabby knife in the back lumbar support to the circul…

Glad to hear others say it. I lusted after one because I read Joel for years. I finally got mine, perfectly fitted and adjusted. And I never had such back pain (I don't normally have any!), I ended up giving it to my wife and using a $60 chair from Ikea that is so much more comfortable.

Re: The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

#42

Post by domador »

wheels wrote: post #32

What I always find a little bit suspect about these posts – especially from FogCreek – is that it's really, "The Price of Dev Happiness As Long As You Define Happiness The Way Your Boss (Me) Does". I prefer sitting cross-legged with a 13" laptop on a mat on the floor. I've had most of the things mentioned in the article and prefer my mat on the floor, thank you very much. But I'm just a random example. More of what I…

I think the list is more of a likely upper-bound to fully outfit a developer's environment. The message seems to be "bosses: it's not that expensive to fully outfit your developers (don't be cheapskates)" instead of "potential FogCreek employees: this is what our cookie cutter looks like (and we'll also do corporate calisthenics every morning)".

It's wonderful that you are so easy to please, though, wheels. Yes, work preferences vary from person to person, but there are likely some common themes among people.

Re: The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

#43

Post by Goladus »

msluyter wrote: post #12

Personally, I hate Aeron chairs with a passion. Obviously, the overall point here is to keep developers happy, so I'd presume FogCreek allows developers to opt for different/better chairs. I just don't understand why these are considered the pinnacle of comfort. Is it just me? Am I the only person who finds everything about them to hideously uncomfortable, from the jabby knife in the back lumbar support to the circul…

circulation killing front steel bar that makes it impossible to perch on the edge if you so desire?

I definitely hate that one, but I must confess the mesh is worth it over standard cushions.

Re: The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

#44

Post by ry0ohki »

seanalltogether wrote: post #8

How many dev shops still give everyone workstations? Our company is entirely on laptops and I don't know a single person here that wants a workstation.

Joel doesn't believe in telecommuting. One way to ensure it stays that way is workstations. (And if you can't work from home, you do get more power for less money in a workstation)

Re: The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

#45

Post by spolsky »

wheels wrote: post #32

What I always find a little bit suspect about these posts – especially from FogCreek – is that it's really, "The Price of Dev Happiness As Long As You Define Happiness The Way Your Boss (Me) Does". I prefer sitting cross-legged with a 13" laptop on a mat on the floor. I've had most of the things mentioned in the article and prefer my mat on the floor, thank you very much. But I'm just a random example. More of what I…

I love the way people on the Internet always find a way to misinterpret every post in the worst possible way, no matter how little sense they make.

After reading a detailed article about how we spend over $5000 to make sure our developers are comfortable at work, do you really think that we then CHAIN them to an Aeron chair and REQUIRE that they use 30" monitors even if they prefer sitting cross-legged on the floor with a 13" laptop?

OK, maybe you believe that. We have bought beanbags and those big bouncy balls for people. We have bought Embody chairs for the rare person who doesn't like a (properly fitted) Aeron chair. If anyone wanted a 13" laptop instead of a 30" monitor, you'd say the word and in 5 minutes you'd have a 13" laptop.

So, this impression you have of Fog Creek as a veal farm with identical programmers all being chained to their identical, Joel-Spolsky-Favored desks is entirely in your own imagination. It sort of reminds me of when I blogged about how we have free lunch and a bunch of people whined about how they don't like to eat with their co-workers. That's nice, some people don't, and that's fine. I never said that the free lunch was mandatory. It's almost bizarre to assume that a company that bends over backwards to make people happy and productive at work is actually some kind of evil plot that would "make you go absolutely bonkers."

Re: The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

#46

Post by phuff »

kenjackson wrote: post #23
seanalltogether wrote: post #8

How many dev shops still give everyone workstations? Our company is entirely on laptops and I don't know a single person here that wants a workstation.

I can't do serious dev work on a laptop. Too underpowered. Everyone here gets a laptop, but it's for working in bed, or on the road, at your child's birth, etc... But for day to day dev work, a high-end workstation is a fair bit more productive. At least for the type of dev work we do.

I sure hope they give you some time off at your child's birth... :)

Re: The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

#47

Post by sp332 »

seanalltogether wrote: post #8

How many dev shops still give everyone workstations? Our company is entirely on laptops and I don't know a single person here that wants a workstation.

I have a laptop. I think I'd rather have a workstation, or at least: more RAM & CPU cores (for VMs), a faster hard drive, a taller monitor with a lot more pixels, a mouse with a scroll wheel, and a numpad. Also more USB ports would be nice.

Re: The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

#48

Post by spolsky »

ry0ohki wrote: post #44
seanalltogether wrote: post #8

How many dev shops still give everyone workstations? Our company is entirely on laptops and I don't know a single person here that wants a workstation.

Joel doesn't believe in telecommuting. One way to ensure it stays that way is workstations. (And if you can't work from home, you do get more power for less money in a workstation)

Some corrections:

(1) it doesn't matter what I believe in. We now have telecommuters at both Stack Exchange and Fog Creek and for the right individual, it's fine.

(2) this doesn't follow. Do you really think we give people desktop computers simply to make it impossible for them to work from home? That's silly. Anyway, the telecommuters we do have almost exclusively use desktop computers. You know why? Because once you've programmed on a 30" monitor, you'll never go back to programming on a laptop.

Re: The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

#49

Post by JimmyL »

An old company of mine had Nightingale CXOs (http://www.nightingalechairs.com/cxo_home.html) as the standard issue developer chair. I remember the first few days I was there, not really getting it - the thing is this complex-looking chair that you'd think would be infinitely comfortable, and mine...wasn't.

And then around day three, just as I was finishing all my HR stuff and the get-to-know-you tours (and starting on my first project), one more person came around and introduced themselves as the local ergonomics advisor, and explained that they were here to fit my chair. I then had to watch the Flash movie on how to adjust my chair, and play with the little 3D rendering of it (during which time, the visitor was watching how I moved). After ten minutes of this they stopped me, and proceeded to adjust five or six settings on the chair (a few angles, the arm width, the pan distance, etc.).

Upon sitting down again, it was like I was sitting on a cloud, and I understood what you get with a thousand-dollar office chair. In an ideal world, it wouldn't take someone who took a course in chair-adjustment (they had a rep come in for two days to teach the advisors how to perfectly fit the chair to the desk and person) - but damn, does the system work well.

Re: The Price of (Dev) Happiness: Part One

#50

Post by gte910h »

JimmyL wrote: post #49

An old company of mine had Nightingale CXOs ( http://www.nightingalechairs.com/cxo_home.html ) as the standard issue developer chair. I remember the first few days I was there, not really getting it - the thing is this complex-looking chair that you'd think would be infinitely comfortable, and mine...wasn't. And then around day three, just as I was finishing all my HR stuff and the get-to-know-you tours (and starting…

I found the aeron's nothing that complicated to adjust properly, but man, was that stuff worth it.
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