MIT study says Arctic ice thinning 4x faster than predicted
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MIT study says Arctic ice thinning 4x faster than predicted
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Re: MIT study says Arctic ice thinning 4x faster than predicted
#2The question isn't whether the earth is warming or not - it clearly is. The real question is what should humans do about it?
I think it's pretty reasonable to ask if trying to turn down the heat is the best use of our resources? That is, perhaps the incalculable trillions of dollars that it would cost to adjust the earth's climate would be better spent on helping humans adjust instead. Hell, there is significant evidence that a warmer climate would lead to an agricultural boom - which coincidentally is exactly what is going to be required to feed 7 billion humans.
Or look at it another way - what if it turned out tomorrow that the climate is warming because of solar activity? Would the environmentalist movement still be advocating that we try to prevent climate change?
Re: MIT study says Arctic ice thinning 4x faster than predicted
#3This is disastrous. Luckily a solution is possible. MIT will need to add a *4 to its algorithm.
Re: MIT study says Arctic ice thinning 4x faster than predicted
#4The question isn't whether the earth is warming or not - it clearly is. The real question is what should humans do about it? I think it's pretty reasonable to ask if trying to turn down the heat is the best use of our resources? That is, perhaps the incalculable trillions of dollars that it would cost to adjust the earth's climate would be better spent on helping humans adjust instead. Hell, there is significant evid…
Reasonable environmentalists aren't advocating that we prevent climate change. The earth's climate changes. It always has and always will. There is nothing we can do to prevent the natural cycles the earth goes through.
What we need to adjust is our unnatural, unbalanced effect on the earth's climate.
Re: MIT study says Arctic ice thinning 4x faster than predicted
#5This is a report that adds nothing to the original release from MIT and in fact fails to mention that these new predictions are based on actual observed data. Here's the original post from MIT:
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2011/arctic-ice-melt-0810.html
Re: MIT study says Arctic ice thinning 4x faster than predicted
#6The question isn't whether the earth is warming or not - it clearly is. The real question is what should humans do about it? I think it's pretty reasonable to ask if trying to turn down the heat is the best use of our resources? That is, perhaps the incalculable trillions of dollars that it would cost to adjust the earth's climate would be better spent on helping humans adjust instead. Hell, there is significant evid…
Reasonable environmentalists aren't advocating that we prevent climate change. The earth's climate changes. It always has and always will. There is nothing we can do to prevent the natural cycles the earth goes through. What we need to adjust is our unnatural, unbalanced effect on the earth's climate.
Why do we need to? Just because it is unnatural and you are philosophically opposed to it? Or are you saying something about the fact that the temperature change is driven by humans rather than nature makes it a problem?
Re: MIT study says Arctic ice thinning 4x faster than predicted
#7The question isn't whether the earth is warming or not - it clearly is. The real question is what should humans do about it? I think it's pretty reasonable to ask if trying to turn down the heat is the best use of our resources? That is, perhaps the incalculable trillions of dollars that it would cost to adjust the earth's climate would be better spent on helping humans adjust instead. Hell, there is significant evid…
My look on the whole matter is about sustainability. This is the only Earth we have, and we are many, many years away from even thinking about trying to colonize another planet or moon. From that, you'd think that common sense says that we should live in a way that keeps our planet habitable and doesn't increase the chance of a run-away chain reaction, ruining the place.
Then again we also know that common sense isn't very common, and there are a significant subset of people who are fine with abusing the finite resources we have at hand.
We do know that the Earth can heal itself a lot faster than we give it credit, when we give it the chance (re: ozone hole over Chile back in the late 90s from CFCs). So yes, the climate changes, and I'm pretty sure the extremes we're seeing today are influenced by human actions, but as long as we're taking steps to minimize our impact on the planet, we'll learn better to deal with the variability that naturally comes to this planet.
Re: MIT study says Arctic ice thinning 4x faster than predicted
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
Reasonable environmentalists aren't advocating that we prevent climate change. The earth's climate changes. It always has and always will. There is nothing we can do to prevent the natural cycles the earth goes through. What we need to adjust is our unnatural, unbalanced effect on the earth's climate.
Why do we need to? Just because it is unnatural and you are philosophically opposed to it? Or are you saying something about the fact that the temperature change is driven by humans rather than nature makes it a problem?
Because we're likely to suffer a great deal if it changes too much or too fast. Stop projecting stereotypes onto other posters.
Re: MIT study says Arctic ice thinning 4x faster than predicted
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
Reasonable environmentalists aren't advocating that we prevent climate change. The earth's climate changes. It always has and always will. There is nothing we can do to prevent the natural cycles the earth goes through. What we need to adjust is our unnatural, unbalanced effect on the earth's climate.
Why do we need to? Just because it is unnatural and you are philosophically opposed to it? Or are you saying something about the fact that the temperature change is driven by humans rather than nature makes it a problem?
We need to because we are aware of the detrimental effects our environmental behavior has not only on nature, but on ourselves too. (And we like preserving ourselves right?)
Re: MIT study says Arctic ice thinning 4x faster than predicted
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why do we need to? Just because it is unnatural and you are philosophically opposed to it? Or are you saying something about the fact that the temperature change is driven by humans rather than nature makes it a problem?
We need to because we are aware of the detrimental effects our environmental behavior has not only on nature, but on ourselves too. (And we like preserving ourselves right?)
That doesn't actually answer my question at all. The GP said that the earth has natural temperature swings and we can't/shouldn't do anything about them. But we need (emphasis mine) to do something about unnatural temperature swings.
Why is there a distinction between temperature changes caused by man and temperature changes caused by nature? If nature were to cause the Earth to warm by the same amount as humans are going to, we would face the same detrimental impacts on the environment that you mentioned (that I don't deny will happen). But given those effects we have 3 and only 3 choices. We can die off. We can adapt to the changes. Or we can force the Earth back to the temperature it is now.
Obviously we will ignore the idea of dieing off.
But given that our response to a natural temperature increase of the same magnitude as the one caused by humans is either A) Adapt or B) Force cool the climate, why aren't these options considered when we are talking about human derived climate change?
Then really the question becomes, is it cheaper/better for us to fix the climate now? Or is it cheaper for us to adapt/change it back later?
That really become an economic question, one of net present value. To say that we need to do it now without addressing the other options is a philosophical position, one that puts keeping nature the way it is today at a higher value than anything else.