My mother died earlier this year. When I asked my boss at our series b startup for leave her response was, "do you really need this much time, its the end of the quarter." I told her that I did actually want 2 weeks to grieve the loss of my mother and she never responded. When I returned to work, she had never told HR that my mother died. HR didn't understand why I was absent for 2 weeks. I decided to resign and not work with people who behave like that.
My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit
161–170 of 344 posts
Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And a company should not be liable to spend $300000 an year on a non productive employee. Nor the taxpayer. It looks more like insurance than healthcare.
A good publicly funded health care system essentially work like an insurance.
Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit
#163Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
Another HN user posted—and then deleted—this comment: > I worry that many people in such a situation may not have the right frame of mind to be able to find, read, understand, and absorb what is normally quite dry reading material requiring often ending in something requiring exceptional perseverance. (I noticed because I was writing a reply.) I think it’s a good comment! And I think that is why you do it now. It’s j…
> It’s just like how every flight begins with the safety briefing. Learn your company’s policies and procedures now, when you don’t need them. And refresh your memory regularly. That's more of a consequence of how we're irrationally afraid of flying than anything else. AFAIK you're far more likely to die of a building fire than a plane crash, yet how many people actually check their hotel's evacuation plan when they…
As an aside, up until a few years ago I was one of those people that did check hotel evacuation plans. I suffered from a lot of habitual ticks back then though and I suspect checking evacuation plans might have been one of them.
Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
Very much this. You always want to be asking HR for an accommodation that is protected by law. Then HR enters into the mode of protecting the company by ensuring they don't get in trouble for violating the law. You go in and say "Hey my wife is dying and my performance is probably going to be impacted, can something be done?", HR may opt to 'protect' the company by starting to build a case for terminating a low perfo…
> You go in and say "Hey my wife is dying and my performance is probably going to be impacted, can something be done?", HR may opt to 'protect' the company by starting to build a case for terminating a low performing employee. That’s the cynical approach, but most companies don’t actually want to lose valuable employees. This is why they have disability insurance coverage in the first place to help cover those gaps (…
Same with "HR," and not only are there multiple people, in large enough companies, there are fairly disconnected teams that handle the various parts of HR, like sourcing candidates, making offers to candidates, supporting managers, handling accommodations and keeping the company on the right side of the law, overseeing budgets and headcount. (If it helps, consider engineering, and the statement, "If engineering didn't want to move their legacy services to public cloud, they would simply have not signed a services contract with this cloud vendor in the first place instead of wasting their money.")
It's entirely possible that every individual on the hiring side genuinely wanted (of their own will) to hire this person anyway, but none of them were the same people who handle working with existing employees, who are all more misanthropic, and they don't talk to each other. It's also possible, and quite a bit more likely, that every individual on the hiring side is incentivized to fill roles, not to retain (how do you give someone an OKR or performance bonus this year based on whether their hires are still around three years in the future, anyway?), and that every individual on the existing-employees side is incentivized to demonstrate that they aren't coddling low performers.
Being employed at a company is a business transaction. It's not cynical to ask what the involved people's financial incentives are and whether they line up with yours, any more than it's cynical to expect that McDonald's will refuse to negotiate on the price of a burger. Even if the employee is nice, they've got a job to do, and they may not be nice.
Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit
#166Believe it or not, this isn't a rare attitude among managers at Amazon. A significant percentage of SDMs believe they must "keep a high bar" and remove any dissenting subordinates. Word has gotten out about it, mostly on the blind app, which forced Amazon to raise pay bands for engineers 50-100k. This is costing the company a lot of money. The difference going forwards for Amazon is that the stock is mostly stagnant,…
I think there is some selection bias in this. And I say this as someone who has recently quit working at Amazon (after many years there). People who get fired are far more likely to leave reviews on blind. And the whole performance improvement plan process that proceeds being fired takes place between the employee and the SDM. It may be the case that their org leadership told the SDM to cut their lowest ranked person…
Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
I read the timeline and it seems like he started in mid-late 2018, was having performance problems throughout 2019, and didn't even get fired until mid-2020. This is super generous, and while I have a lot of empathy for his personal situation, I think he could have had a much different outcome if he would have been more proactive about managing expectations: - Amazon does have a bereavement benefit that you definitel…
> How many years should a company wait for an underperforming employee to perform? Perhaps wait until after their spouse has died and see if they recover? Even the idea of an "underperforming employee" is specious at best. This is why I love Italy and France, it is night impossible to fire someone for things like this from tech companies. Of course, they also don't have to worry about going bankrupt due to medical is…
Have I just gotten lucky with companies with good negotiated deals? (The open exchange plans generally have looked terrible compared to any group plan I’ve had in the last 10 years.)
Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure how it's done at Amazon - they are, after all, notorious for driving employees hard - but my understanding is that poor performance over a year or so is usually about the point at which firing begins to be discussed at large companies. And the problem wasn't that he didn't want to perform or was intrinsically a bad employee; the problem was that he literally couldn't due to circumstance. It's not generou…
Many things wrong with your comment, starting with the fact that firing beings to be discussed only after a year. It actually begins to be discussed immediately after the employee is assessed to be an underperformer. It's only after a year of bad written performance reviews that they can actually start to do something about it, such as put the employee on a "PIP" or fire the employee.
Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit
#169I have one question for HN: Why do you all still use Amazon?
Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
> How many years should a company wait for an underperforming employee to perform? Perhaps wait until after their spouse has died and see if they recover? Even the idea of an "underperforming employee" is specious at best. This is why I love Italy and France, it is night impossible to fire someone for things like this from tech companies. Of course, they also don't have to worry about going bankrupt due to medical is…
I’ve gotten a couple Cobra offers in the past few years after leaving jobs, both of them with very solid to great health insurance, and haven’t seen a number higher than $1k/month (101% or whatever of the employer cost). What sort of insurance do you have to have to ask for $3-5K/month? That would be 36-60K a year! I’ve never seen a company paying close to that in benefits. And my current employer has a “cost to empl…