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New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

science.org

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Re: New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

#41

Post by 1cvmask »

kragen wrote: post #28

An interesting thing the article somehow doesn't mention is that the Roman alphabet in which I'm more or less typing this (IN VVHICH I'M MORE OR LESS TYPING THIS) descends from the very scarce Etruscan letters, which descend from Greek. This is why the Roman alphabet revives letters like digamma and qoppa that had been obsolete in Greek for centuries.

“The Latin alphabet evolved from the visually similar Etruscan alphabet, which evolved from the Cumaean Greek version of the Greek alphabet, which was itself descended from the Phoenician alphabet, which in turn derived from Egyptian hieroglyphics.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_alphabet

Re: New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

#42

Post by quickthrowman »

roywiggins wrote: post #40
folli wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One, quite famous, Roman surname is Caesar. Unlike the modern english pronunciation of his name, the pronunciation follows what you have written: Kaesar. In Germanic this morphed into "Kaiser", which is the german word for "Emperor". I find it quite interesting how the status and power of this one man was so widely recognized, that his surname was already used during Roman times (and still is in the German language)…

I think it might derive more from Augustus' use of the name- he was the first Roman emperor, though Caesar did rule as dictator for a little while.

Augustus was Caesar’s heir, and the name was part of his inheritance.

Re: New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

#43

Post by jaclaz »

mapster wrote: post #39
koevet wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The National Etruscan Museum in Rome ( https://www.museoetru.it/ ) holds one of the largest collections of Etruscan art. Do not miss if you happen to be in Rome.

Seems there are collections all thru Italy. I’ve been to two museums with impressive Etruscan collections just in Le Marche alone (Ancona, Sasso Feratto)

You mean, I believe, Sassoferrato (which was actually Sentinum in roman times).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sassoferrato

I think that all was found there comes not from Etruscan settlements, but rather from the battlefield: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sentinum or from the umbri and sanniti, or from the later romans, etruscans were reknown and appreciated for their art, particularly ceramics, even in those times.

Etruscans cities were in central western Italy, mainly Tuscany, and Lazio with extensions to the north (Emilia Romagna and Veneto) and to the south (Campania):

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruschi#/media/File:Etruscan_...

Disclaimer:

the founder of the museum of Sassoferrato:

https://www.sassoferratoturismo.it/museo-civico-archeologico...

was my grandfather, and all I know about the matter comes from family stories.

Re: New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

#44

Post by seanw444 »

1cvmask wrote: post #41
kragen wrote: post #28

An interesting thing the article somehow doesn't mention is that the Roman alphabet in which I'm more or less typing this (IN VVHICH I'M MORE OR LESS TYPING THIS) descends from the very scarce Etruscan letters, which descend from Greek. This is why the Roman alphabet revives letters like digamma and qoppa that had been obsolete in Greek for centuries.

“The Latin alphabet evolved from the visually similar Etruscan alphabet, which evolved from the Cumaean Greek version of the Greek alphabet, which was itself descended from the Phoenician alphabet, which in turn derived from Egyptian hieroglyphics.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_alphabet

I'm disappointed the list ends there.

Re: New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

#45

Post by kaesar14 »

quickthrowman wrote: post #42
roywiggins wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it might derive more from Augustus' use of the name- he was the first Roman emperor, though Caesar did rule as dictator for a little while.

Augustus was Caesar’s heir, and the name was part of his inheritance.

The same way Gaius Julius received it as an inheritance from his forebears. OP is totally right that the name and its power emanates from Octavian’s prestige and domination of the Roman world for near half a century.

Re: New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

#46

Post by roywiggins »

quickthrowman wrote: post #42
roywiggins wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it might derive more from Augustus' use of the name- he was the first Roman emperor, though Caesar did rule as dictator for a little while.

Augustus was Caesar’s heir, and the name was part of his inheritance.

Yeah, but it didn't become a title until the Julio-Claudians started using it to designate their heirs. When Augustus took it on, it was just a powerful family name. Once the Julio-Claudians were finished, it was a title.

It seems overwhelmingly likely that when later emperors kept using it, they were referencing the dynasty that Augustus founded, not Julius Caesar personally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_(title)#Sole_Roman_Empe...

Re: New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

#47

Post by Tagbert »

fogihujy wrote: post #31
danjac wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vascon and Etruscan survived (and possibly others) How about Finno-Ugric? While the Hungarians only arrived about 1000 years ago, the ancestors of the Finns, Sami and related groups have lived in North-East Europe possibly since the last Ice Age (although this is much disputed, and it could be they adopted Proto-Finnic from some later migration).

It depends on how you look at things. The Nordic Bronze age spread around the entire Baltic as well, and genetic markers associated with Finnic cultures appeared much later, and in areas further north and east. However, as the article mentions, it's unwise to assume there is a 100% correlation between genetic markers and culture/language. The Baltic Sea region has been a trade hub since before the the first indo-euro…

You’re comment about not assuming a correlation of language and genetics is spot on for this topic. In the linked article (or maybe it was another article on this topic) they mention that genetic research shows that Etruscans shared much of the same step-derived ancestry as the Latin speaking Italians. It appears that, when then step invaders came in, at least one group of them picked up a local non-IE language even while their genetics overcame the original speakers.

Re: New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

#48

Post by kragen »

seanw444 wrote: post #44
1cvmask wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“The Latin alphabet evolved from the visually similar Etruscan alphabet, which evolved from the Cumaean Greek version of the Greek alphabet, which was itself descended from the Phoenician alphabet, which in turn derived from Egyptian hieroglyphics.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_alphabet

I'm disappointed the list ends there.

The Egyptian hieroglyphics might be derived from cuneiform, but the more popular hypothesis is that they were invented by someone who didn't know how to read or write.

Re: New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

#49

Post by ChainOfFools »

kragen wrote: post #48
seanw444 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm disappointed the list ends there.

The Egyptian hieroglyphics might be derived from cuneiform, but the more popular hypothesis is that they were invented by someone who didn't know how to read or write.

one amateur scribe was responsible for such an enormously consequential bottleneck event?

Re: New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

#50

Post by kragen »

ChainOfFools wrote: post #49
kragen wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Egyptian hieroglyphics might be derived from cuneiform, but the more popular hypothesis is that they were invented by someone who didn't know how to read or write.

one amateur scribe was responsible for such an enormously consequential bottleneck event?

the word we usually use around here is not "amateur" but "hacker"
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