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Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

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Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#91

Post by pdovy »

djoldman wrote: post #44

How about Chicago: > The biggest reason is that essentially Chicago and other cities around Illinois required the use of lead service lines all the way until 1986, long after it was recognized that lead was poisonous and other cities had stopped using it. A decade after other cities had stopped using it Chicago and other cities in Illinois were not only using it but requiring the use of lead long after everybody else…

Not only that, but it's really difficult to get the service line replaced even if you're willing to pay for it.

We went through the exercise a few years ago. It can be difficult to find a plumbing service willing to do this kind of work because not only do they need a special certification (makes sense) but the company has to put up something like a $5000 bond on their work with the city.

On top of that replacing the portion of the line that goes from the shutoff to the main requires digging up the street, so it can only be done if your street is not currently on a "moratorium" because it was recently repaved. Finally, the city charges a significant amount in permitting fees before you even get to paying for the plumbing service, roadwork repair and landscaping.

We finally gave up on that project and given the relatively low level leeching into our water just decided that we could live with using water filters specifically designed to remove lead for any water that our kids drink / cook with.

If Chicago was really serious about tackling this they could start with waiving permitting fees and bond requirements and streamline the process for managing the part of the process that occurs on city property. That'd at least make replacing these more tractable during a remodel.

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#93

Post by WalterBright »

floor2 wrote: post #86
dwohnitmok wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, of all the environmental hazards caused by large corporations, here's a rare example of one where this was primarily caused by a union, which while not opposed to the overall removal of lead, demanded the use of pipes which required specialized knowledge to install, which precluded non-brazed copper and plastic pipes used elsewhere in the nation, and effectively made lead pipes the only viable o…

This is why the "right vs left" style of thinking drives me crazy. Unions are constantly doing evil things, usually for the same greedy and power-hungry reasons as any corporate board, and to the same detriment of society at large, but because we think of unions as being on "our side" and latch onto this romanticized notion of the unions of the 1800s they get a pass. The police and prison guard unions constantly do h…

Unions are simply businesses that make labor available to companies. Any notion that they are something different from a business is mistaken. Attempts by unions to use government to make themselves legal monopolies are just as bad as any other business using government to do that.

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#94

Post by throwaway0a5e »

cobookman wrote: post #46

It's shameful the EPA still hasn't banned leaded aviation fuel.

Aviation fuel is a far smaller source of lead in humans than just about anything else since it's mostly thinly distributed thousands of feet away from them (contrast with paint, handling of lead objects, plumbing, etc).

I don't find anything disagreeable about the EPA refraining from spending my taxes on low impact things to appease people who just want to see a feel good message be sent.

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#95

Post by throwaway0a5e »

JCBird1012 wrote: post #32
wallawe wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another source of lead, unfortunately, is in children's toys. Yeah this was going to be my question, is where is the lead coming from? Water, toys, what else? Having a 4 week old, seeing this concerns me so I'd love to do what I can to avoid it.

Smaller general aviation aircraft still use 100LL gasoline (the LL stands for low lead) - and even though there’s lead-free replacement candidates (still going through regulatory approval, at least in the US), it’s been known that areas around airports with frequent GA traffic have higher levels of lead in the air, and children living near said airports may have elevated levels of lead in their blood ( https://paloal…

>and children living near said airports may have elevated levels of lead in their blood

Or is that because the upper middle class types avoid airport noise like the plague leaving the housing stock around airports cheaper, older and more leaded?

The correlation between low income and lead (all known bad chemicals highly used in the past really) exposure is well studied rather than speculative.

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#96

Post by WalterBright »

roland35 wrote: post #15

My wife and I are particularly concerned about lead, especially since there is no way to really cure lead poisoning. Any house built before the 1980s could have lead in it, with varying degrees of concern for children. Around the home here is what we found are sources of lead to worry about (or not): - Paint: lead was banned in paint in 1979, but lead was used less and less even before the cutoff date. Paint is espec…

You can also get lead from crystal glassware. I don't use mine anymore, they're just a decoration.

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#97

Post by whimsicalism »

WalterBright wrote: post #93
floor2 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why the "right vs left" style of thinking drives me crazy. Unions are constantly doing evil things, usually for the same greedy and power-hungry reasons as any corporate board, and to the same detriment of society at large, but because we think of unions as being on "our side" and latch onto this romanticized notion of the unions of the 1800s they get a pass. The police and prison guard unions constantly do h…

Unions are simply businesses that make labor available to companies. Any notion that they are something different from a business is mistaken. Attempts by unions to use government to make themselves legal monopolies are just as bad as any other business using government to do that.

Let me know the next time I can vote to have my CEO replaced, thanks :)

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#98

Post by jimbob45 »

krrrh wrote: post #78
djoldman wrote: post #44

How about Chicago: > The biggest reason is that essentially Chicago and other cities around Illinois required the use of lead service lines all the way until 1986, long after it was recognized that lead was poisonous and other cities had stopped using it. A decade after other cities had stopped using it Chicago and other cities in Illinois were not only using it but requiring the use of lead long after everybody else…

It seems like the lead blood level indicator has been removed from this site, but a friend showed me this map of homicide rates vs one with lead levels from 18 years prior[0] and there was a pretty strong correlation. Obviously there are confounders, but Kevin Drum’s decade old article positing that lead was a major contributor to the crime wave and subsequent reduction is pretty compelling. [1] EDIT: aside, but mayb…

Isn't it possible that places that are too poor to reliably remove potential lead exposure from their environment are also poor enough to attract crime in general?

This makes the assumption that poorness and crime are correlated, which I recently learned is not a universal truth.

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#99

Post by whimsicalism »

floor2 wrote: post #86
dwohnitmok wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, of all the environmental hazards caused by large corporations, here's a rare example of one where this was primarily caused by a union, which while not opposed to the overall removal of lead, demanded the use of pipes which required specialized knowledge to install, which precluded non-brazed copper and plastic pipes used elsewhere in the nation, and effectively made lead pipes the only viable o…

This is why the "right vs left" style of thinking drives me crazy. Unions are constantly doing evil things, usually for the same greedy and power-hungry reasons as any corporate board, and to the same detriment of society at large, but because we think of unions as being on "our side" and latch onto this romanticized notion of the unions of the 1800s they get a pass. The police and prison guard unions constantly do h…

It's not nearly as symmetric as you're making it out to be.

In terms of overall welfare, an additional dollar in the pocket of a typical union worker is going to be more welfare enhancing than that additional dollar in the pocket of the typical owner. This is from just basic diminishing marginal utility of the dollar.

Of course, unions can do awful, evil things - they are organizations of people and people are petty, self-centered, greedy, etc.

I'm in favor of workers' ability to elect someone to represent them at the negotiation table (because that is what a union is). I'm not unaware that sometimes those workers can elect bad people.

I'm also in favor of electoral democracy, even if I wouldn't personally defend every single person who has been elected president since the start of time.

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#100

Post by stonemetal12 »

verst wrote: post #68
JCBird1012 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smaller general aviation aircraft still use 100LL gasoline (the LL stands for low lead) - and even though there’s lead-free replacement candidates (still going through regulatory approval, at least in the US), it’s been known that areas around airports with frequent GA traffic have higher levels of lead in the air, and children living near said airports may have elevated levels of lead in their blood ( https://paloal…

What about the pilots? I always get this fuel on my hands during preflight when sumping the fuel tanks.

Lead doesn't absorb through the skin. You have to breathe or eat it. As long as you thoroughly wash your hands after preflight, the only exposure should be the fumes and exhaust in the air.
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