151–160 of 326 posts
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How is it possible to return more fresh water than you use? Where does the surplus come from?
Because water that isn't fresh can become fresh. We have the technology. They're already purifying a staggering amount of water, might as well purify a bit more while they're at it.
Has Intel mastered EVU lithography yet? They've been close for a long time now.
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I live in Phoenix and have heard some of the local discourse about this. Fabs need a lot of water, like a swimming pool. Once you fill it up, then you need comparatively less to stay operational. Intel has invested in both recycling water as well as partnering with organizations on water conservation and ecology projects. Arizona does draw water from the Colorado River, but among the four states, Arizona is at the bo…
> The biggest user of water here in Arizona are the commercial farmers. And farming has been booming in Arizona. I lived there about 10 years ago and even then there were a lot of complaints about all the tree farms (almonds, etc.) that were showing up in Arizona. Massive water consumption and virtually impossible to be sustainable in the desert.
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Industry is a surprisingly small portion of water consumption in many places. In many states, household water use (including lawns) can handily exceed the water used by industry. Using this water for domestic chip making is arguably a very reasonable use of water. If we’re going to start cutting water usage, let’s start with things like golf courses in the desert instead of critical chip-making infrastructure.
I feel a bit of tension. I'm not a big fan of people using water to grow grass in the desert, but I'm also not a big fan of making tens or hundreds of thousands of people sacrifice so that one large corporation can profit. Yeah, I know that chip manufacturing helps everyone by improving our economic independence, and that's not a small thing, but we're already writing Intel a big check and they obviously benefit from…
I don't expect this to happen.
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Arizona is a place where, with enough investment (like the billions here) power can be extremely green and cheap, with solar. Needing a huge amount of air conditioning is not a problem when it coincides with the moment the sun is pouring huge amounts of energy into your solar array.
this leaves out the issues with the large amounts of water needed for semiconductor fabrication, although another commenter noted that Arizona has pretty good water management (I guess this includes recycling?)
https://download.intel.com/newsroom/2021/manufacturing/Intel...
Is there any evidence that Intel has fixed its process problems? Otherwise aren’t they building a $20B liability?
Intel have new management and some optimism and by the time the plant is finished in 2-3 years they'll have their ducks in a row, but who knows what the market will be like then. In a bad scenario they could be a end up a bulk supplier to other companies of close to state-of-the-art chips, which might be an ok place to be.
Doesn't chip making a lot of water, most of it in Arizona is fed by Lake Mead? The same reservoir that is at 30% capacity, with acute water shortages and with 4 years of increased precipitation necessary for an adequate refill. We are adding a chip making facility which needs a lot of water here? This sounds like a recipe for disaster whenever there is a period of water stress which appears to be occurring in that re…
Well, it’s a market, so the corporations with cashflow stand at the front of the queue. There is no other way of organizing this in our late stage capitalist shitscape… It’s unfortunate that poor people need to starve or freeze to death to keep billionaires “alive”, but that’s what our genocidal, fellow citizens have been voting for..
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Because water that isn't fresh can become fresh. We have the technology. They're already purifying a staggering amount of water, might as well purify a bit more while they're at it.
That still doesn't explain where this unfresh water comes from.
While Arizona is landlocked there's also not a ton of distance between it and the Gulf of California so they could do desalinization, although I imagine that's too costly to consider at the moment.
> It has its own water treatment plant at its Ocotillo campus in Chandler that’s similar to a municipal plant. There’s also a “brine reduction facility,” a public-private partnership with the city of Chandler, that brings 2.5 million gallons of Intel’s wastewater a day back to drinking standard. Intel uses some of the treated water again, and the rest is sent to replenish groundwater sources or be used by surrounding communities.
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Contrary to common belief, cities do not really need gigantic amounts of water. You take a shower, water goes down the drain, you can reclaim most of it if you want to. Don't allow irrigated lawns, reclaim gray water, urban water needs drop to a trickle. AZ is a leader in this space.
Oh good, cities can be more water-efficient than people commonly believe. Guess it’s solved! Pay no attention to the drying rivers, emptying reservoirs, and depleting aquifers. If cities are more efficient per capita than people commonly believe, we can probably just grow our cities arbitrarily and our cotton farms and golf courses even more so.
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Well, it’s a market, so the corporations with cashflow stand at the front of the queue. There is no other way of organizing this in our late stage capitalist shitscape… It’s unfortunate that poor people need to starve or freeze to death to keep billionaires “alive”, but that’s what our genocidal, fellow citizens have been voting for..
Please try and actually contribute to the discussion. In reality countries without many billionaires have way more issues with water supply and heating.
Please don’t waste people’s time, thank you.