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New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

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Re: New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

#31

Post by fogihujy »

danjac wrote: post #26
ithkuil wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a similar argument can be made for the legacy of the indo europeans. You just have to go a bit further back, before greek and hittite and celt and iranian/aryan and vedic cultures where a distinct thing, there was one single culture speaking a single language: the proto indo european people and culture. They had a lot of success (horse drawn carts with wheels, bronze working). They slowly spread east and west…

> Vascon and Etruscan survived (and possibly others) How about Finno-Ugric? While the Hungarians only arrived about 1000 years ago, the ancestors of the Finns, Sami and related groups have lived in North-East Europe possibly since the last Ice Age (although this is much disputed, and it could be they adopted Proto-Finnic from some later migration).

It depends on how you look at things. The Nordic Bronze age spread around the entire Baltic as well, and genetic markers associated with Finnic cultures appeared much later, and in areas further north and east.

However, as the article mentions, it's unwise to assume there is a 100% correlation between genetic markers and culture/language. The Baltic Sea region has been a trade hub since before the the first indo-european migrations into the area, and some genetic mixing must have been unavoidable.

Re: New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

#32

Post by convFixb »

_1tan wrote: post #4
koevet wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The National Etruscan Museum in Rome ( https://www.museoetru.it/ ) holds one of the largest collections of Etruscan art. Do not miss if you happen to be in Rome.

Seconded - affordable and not crowded as well!

Thirded - Like many of the less-touristy museums in Rome, it's a museum for grown-ups. I think the average HN'er would appreciate it :)

Re: New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

#33

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

convFixb wrote: post #32
_1tan wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seconded - affordable and not crowded as well!

Thirded - Like many of the less-touristy museums in Rome, it's a museum for grown-ups. I think the average HN'er would appreciate it :)

Fourthed - it's also a gorgeous museum, in that it's covered with beautiful Etruscan frescoes, and the grounds feel more ancient and down to earth without pandering. And it's pretty hard to find Etruscan artifacts, so it's a one-stop-shop.

Re: New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

#34

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

avereveard wrote: post #22

They likely dominated Rome at some point, but founded is quite a strong claim given the marked cultural, linguistical and artistical differences. There's no continuity at all to justify a colony outgrow.

What I had heard was that the people of Rome lived around the hills, and the Etruscans sort of did the work of building a city and government, and the native Romans adopted their culture, grew through conquest of neighboring native tribes, and ultimately overthrew the Etruscans - but not before eliminating the legacy of their former masters.

Re: New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

#36

Post by folli »

riffraff wrote: post #14

My favourite part of the Etruscan language legacy is the letter "C" ("K" sound). It was originally a gamma ("G" sound), but the Etruscan language did not need it and they just used it as K. Then the Romans adopted the Etruscan alphabet, but they _did_ have both K and G sounds and so had to invent a new letter, even tho the original greek alphabet (and all its predecessors) already had it to begin with :)

One, quite famous, Roman surname is Caesar. Unlike the modern english pronunciation of his name, the pronunciation follows what you have written: Kaesar.

In Germanic this morphed into "Kaiser", which is the german word for "Emperor". I find it quite interesting how the status and power of this one man was so widely recognized, that his surname was already used during Roman times (and still is in the German language) as a title for someone holding utmost power. Originally, the name Caesar likely just meant "a hairy person".

Re: New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

#37

Post by signal11 »

riffraff wrote: post #14

My favourite part of the Etruscan language legacy is the letter "C" ("K" sound). It was originally a gamma ("G" sound), but the Etruscan language did not need it and they just used it as K. Then the Romans adopted the Etruscan alphabet, but they _did_ have both K and G sounds and so had to invent a new letter, even tho the original greek alphabet (and all its predecessors) already had it to begin with :)

For anyone who likes this sort of thing, the initial few episodes of the History of English podcast[1] is amazing. It dives into the history right from Proto-Indo European and in fact covers the Greek and Etruscan influences, and spends time speaking about the people and their culture.

[1] https://historyofenglishpodcast.com/

Re: New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

#38

Post by mason55 »

folli wrote: post #36
riffraff wrote: post #14

My favourite part of the Etruscan language legacy is the letter "C" ("K" sound). It was originally a gamma ("G" sound), but the Etruscan language did not need it and they just used it as K. Then the Romans adopted the Etruscan alphabet, but they _did_ have both K and G sounds and so had to invent a new letter, even tho the original greek alphabet (and all its predecessors) already had it to begin with :)

One, quite famous, Roman surname is Caesar. Unlike the modern english pronunciation of his name, the pronunciation follows what you have written: Kaesar. In Germanic this morphed into "Kaiser", which is the german word for "Emperor". I find it quite interesting how the status and power of this one man was so widely recognized, that his surname was already used during Roman times (and still is in the German language)…

Also the source of czar and tsar!

Re: New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

#39

Post by mapster »

koevet wrote: post #3
tomcam wrote: post #2

Discovered Etruscan art during a random walk that led past a small museum in Rome. It is elegant, unique, and weirdly anachronistic for its era; has a futuristic feel to me.

The National Etruscan Museum in Rome ( https://www.museoetru.it/ ) holds one of the largest collections of Etruscan art. Do not miss if you happen to be in Rome.

Seems there are collections all thru Italy. I’ve been to two museums with impressive Etruscan collections just in Le Marche alone (Ancona, Sasso Feratto)

Re: New work sheds light on the Etruscans, who may have founded Rome

#40

Post by roywiggins »

folli wrote: post #36
riffraff wrote: post #14

My favourite part of the Etruscan language legacy is the letter "C" ("K" sound). It was originally a gamma ("G" sound), but the Etruscan language did not need it and they just used it as K. Then the Romans adopted the Etruscan alphabet, but they _did_ have both K and G sounds and so had to invent a new letter, even tho the original greek alphabet (and all its predecessors) already had it to begin with :)

One, quite famous, Roman surname is Caesar. Unlike the modern english pronunciation of his name, the pronunciation follows what you have written: Kaesar. In Germanic this morphed into "Kaiser", which is the german word for "Emperor". I find it quite interesting how the status and power of this one man was so widely recognized, that his surname was already used during Roman times (and still is in the German language)…

I think it might derive more from Augustus' use of the name- he was the first Roman emperor, though Caesar did rule as dictator for a little while.
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