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Canadian military saw pandemic as opportunity to test propaganda techniques

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Re: Canadian military saw pandemic as opportunity to test propaganda techniques

#41

Post by dleslie »

arcticbull wrote: post #30
chuckee wrote: post #4

> A military investigation determined what the Canadian Forces public affairs leadership was doing was “incompatible with Government of Canada Communications Policy (and the) mission and principles of Public Affairs.” I would hope that deploying the military against your own citizens is against more than just an executive branch policy that can be changed at any moment.

It's not, in Canada. The government may elect to invoke the War Measures Act [1]. Pierre Trudeau did this when he drove tanks into Montreal to quash the Québécois nationalist terrorist organization, the FLQ in the October Crisis of 1962 [2]. [edit] Posse Comitatus is more of an American thing - for the record the War Measures Act was subsequently replaced with the Emergencies Act [3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wik…

More recently, the military was deployed against citizens during the Oka Crisis.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oka_Crisis

Re: Canadian military saw pandemic as opportunity to test propaganda techniques

#43

Post by JamisonM »

908B64B197 wrote: post #40
JamisonM wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure you are just making things up now unless you have a source. There were lots of arrests, lots of convictions, some fleeing to Cuba and subsequent detentions. Nobody in the Chénier cell the precipitated the crisis was let off on entrapment or, as far as I know, ever alleged entrapment. They regarded themselves as patriots and I believe they would have found the idea very offensive. None of this of course ha…

> as far as I know, ever alleged entrapment. It's not like the prosecution is going to brag about it, when they simply have the option of not going to trial or make a plea bargain. > Pretty sure you are just making things up now unless you have a source. I wish. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_controversies_involvin... https://archive.macleans.ca/article/1977/11/14/the-gang-that... > and the fact that the FLQ m…

What does this have to do with my reply above? Genuinely confused.

Re: Canadian military saw pandemic as opportunity to test propaganda techniques

#44

Post by sbakzbsmx »

gpm wrote: post #13
markdown wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "suspend constitutional rights" (apparently that's a thing over there) That's a thing in the US too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_America...

Considering that the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms wasn't even in the constitution until 1982 (and up until then the constitution was controlled by the British parliament), I have no clue what he's on about with it being suspended in the 70s. Incidentally, that (the charter being put into the constitution and the constitution being put under Canadian control) happened during Pierre Trudeau's term. There's a…

Thats a very dishonest history of the rights of Canadians derived as subjects to her Majesty.

And a very dishonest portrayal of the October Crisis, a time when English Canada was shocked that PET would go so far to stop the FLQ.

A journo even asked PET how far he was willing to go to rid Quebec of the FLQ and got the famous answer: “just watch me”

No, PET knew he was violating the basic principles of Canadian freedom, but didnt care.

Re: Canadian military saw pandemic as opportunity to test propaganda techniques

#45

Post by sbakzbsmx »

LegitShady wrote: post #12
markdown wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "suspend constitutional rights" (apparently that's a thing over there) That's a thing in the US too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_America...

its easier in canada. the charter of rights and freedoms has weasel words in it that make it not absolute. In the US they ignore it, in canada the courts can declare infringements 'reasonable' based on the 'limitations clause'. >1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a…

I think the “Not Withstanding Clause” is the funniest bit of Chretien’s (the real author) constitution.

Re: Canadian military saw pandemic as opportunity to test propaganda techniques

#46

Post by dang »

mcrae wrote: post #10
908B64B197 wrote: post #6

Not really surprising. The current leader's family has always maintained close personal ties to dictatorships, such as the Castro family. [0] [1] The father even went as far as to "suspend constitutional rights" (apparently that's a thing over there) for dubious reasons back in the 70's. [0] https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/the-trudeau-familys-love-of-... [1] https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/27/world/justin-trudeau-castro-…

You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. The War Measures Act [0] is a law that grants government powers in times of war or insurrection. There was, you guess it, an insurrection in the 70s [1] and the it was appropriately triggered. Also the whole article describes an operation that even senior military commanders were unaware of — what possible connection could there be to the PM? Pure dumb speculation.…

Please don't reply to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: it looks like you've been doing this repeatedly lately. Would you mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart? We'd be grateful.

Re: Canadian military saw pandemic as opportunity to test propaganda techniques

#47

Post by 908B64B197 »

JamisonM wrote: post #43
908B64B197 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as far as I know, ever alleged entrapment. It's not like the prosecution is going to brag about it, when they simply have the option of not going to trial or make a plea bargain. > Pretty sure you are just making things up now unless you have a source. I wish. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_controversies_involvin... https://archive.macleans.ca/article/1977/11/14/the-gang-that... > and the fact that the FLQ m…

What does this have to do with my reply above? Genuinely confused.

Had you read the material I posted,

"In 1974, RCMP Security Service Corporal Robert Samson was arrested at a hospital after a failed bombing - the bomb exploded while in his hands, causing him to lose some fingers and tearing his eardrums - at the house of Sam Steinberg, founder of Steinberg Foods in Montreal. While this bombing was not sanctioned by the RCMP, at trial he announced that he had done "much worse" on behalf of the RCMP, and admitted he had been involved in the APLQ break-in."

Re: Canadian military saw pandemic as opportunity to test propaganda techniques

#48

Post by JamisonM »

908B64B197 wrote: post #47
JamisonM wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does this have to do with my reply above? Genuinely confused.

Had you read the material I posted, "In 1974, RCMP Security Service Corporal Robert Samson was arrested at a hospital after a failed bombing - the bomb exploded while in his hands, causing him to lose some fingers and tearing his eardrums - at the house of Sam Steinberg, founder of Steinberg Foods in Montreal. While this bombing was not sanctioned by the RCMP, at trial he announced that he had done "much worse" on be…

I have no love for the RCMP, but I don't understand what this has to do with entrapment related to the FLQ crisis. Sorry I asked.

Re: Canadian military saw pandemic as opportunity to test propaganda techniques

#49

Post by joe_the_user »

The plan would have seen staff move from traditional government methods of communicating with the public to a more aggressive strategy of using information warfare and influence tactics on Canadians

A remarkably opaque statement and I can't see where the description gets more detailed. Does anyone know what actually happened?

I could some opaque commentary on this whole situation in return: "At the moment when almost every aspect of international political life and a growing number of those aspects that count in internal politics are conducted and displayed in the style of the secret services, with decoys, disinformation and double explanations (one might conceal another, or may only seem to), the spectacle confines itself to making known a wearisome world of obligatory incomprehensibility, a boring series of lifeless, inconclusive crime novels. It is true that the realistic direction of a fight between black people, at night, in a tunnel, must pass for a sufficiently dramatic motive." [1]

[1] Debord http://www.notbored.org/commentaires.html

Re: Canadian military saw pandemic as opportunity to test propaganda techniques

#50

Post by gpm »

sbakzbsmx wrote: post #44
gpm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms wasn't even in the constitution until 1982 (and up until then the constitution was controlled by the British parliament), I have no clue what he's on about with it being suspended in the 70s. Incidentally, that (the charter being put into the constitution and the constitution being put under Canadian control) happened during Pierre Trudeau's term. There's a…

Thats a very dishonest history of the rights of Canadians derived as subjects to her Majesty. And a very dishonest portrayal of the October Crisis, a time when English Canada was shocked that PET would go so far to stop the FLQ. A journo even asked PET how far he was willing to go to rid Quebec of the FLQ and got the famous answer: “just watch me” No, PET knew he was violating the basic principles of Canadian freedom…

> Thats a very dishonest history of the rights of Canadians derived as subjects to her Majesty.

I assure you, it's not dishonest, it might be ill informed. I'm not a Canadian legal history scholar...

What, pray tell, constitutional rights did Canadians derive as subjects to her Majesty prior to 1982? Also how was the Canadian parliament able to bypass those rights when they didn't have authority over the constitution? Sources would be appreciated.

> And a very dishonest portrayal of the October Crisis

It's not a portrayal of that at all, it's a simple statement that an act and was invoked and a point of law without discussing the events that caused it to be invoked.

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