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Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

blog.benjojo.co.uk

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Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#71

Post by sbierwagen »

potiuper wrote: post #24
bserge wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorites are TP-Link's WDR3600/4300, AC1200 and AC1750. Yeah, not switches per se, but $20-40, Gigabit Ethernet, dual band Wifi, very stable and fast with OpenWRT, can do anything. You can daisy chain a few of them if you need more ports, it's rather fun.

Or instead of being a penny pincher get an AX wireless router and not contribute more ewaste.

If you really are futureproofing, note that most AX (Wifi 6) equipment today doesn't support the new 6ghz frequencies recently allocated to wifi. For that you need "Wifi 6E". Of course, 6E stuff is quite expensive right now. (Expect to pay $400+ per node)

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#72

Post by bserge »

potiuper wrote: post #24
bserge wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorites are TP-Link's WDR3600/4300, AC1200 and AC1750. Yeah, not switches per se, but $20-40, Gigabit Ethernet, dual band Wifi, very stable and fast with OpenWRT, can do anything. You can daisy chain a few of them if you need more ports, it's rather fun.

Or instead of being a penny pincher get an AX wireless router and not contribute more ewaste.

Heh, I only have 4 of them and they're not going out of use anytime soon. Bought all of them used, of course.

One works as a main router for a fiber Internet connection (via a dumb SFP-Ethernet D-Link switch), 2 handle the "Intranet" 1 house + 1 workshop (Wifi bridge via one band) computers, printer and NAS, and one is with me, acting as a repeater bridge.

If I buy anything new it'll habe to support OpenWrt or I stick with AC1750s lol.

Even Wifi N 300 is enough for my needs, computers are wired and my phone doesn't need AC speeds.

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#73

Post by EricE »

toast0 wrote: post #63
tylerfontaine wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had these jump outside of my house. I realize how crazy it sounds, but I had a pair (they were not encrypted - this was long ago, and I don't even know if encrypted ones existed) and my neighbor had a pair. I would, very occasionally, end up getting DHCP answered by the router in their network. It took forever to figure out what was causing this, and I eventually figured it out by doing a (very slow) IP scan o…

Doesn't sound crazy at all, there's not really anything in your breaker panel or your meter or the outside wiring designed to stop these signals, it's just that there's also nothing designed to help the signals make it through all that, so you wouldn't expect it to continue beyond your house. Just like they tend not to work very well when used on different circuits, they shouldn't work very well outside your house, w…

There are phase bridges to ensure powerline signals are on both phases in the typical US house, and phase filters available that filter the powerline frequencies - they were originally conceived not so much for leaking out, but preventing noise from leaking in and interfering with powerline stuff.

X10 users have used them for years - you can find them with vendors that specialize in dealing with the X10 community or home automation; although with the wireless mesh networks like Zwave or Zigbee a lot of the powerline stuff has (thankfully) fallen by the wayside.

Another way to get wired internet without possibly running new cable is with MOCA - ethernet over coax. You can find cheap DirecTV branded MOCA adapters all over the place. Most are 100Mbps but if you watch the newer ones are gigabit capable.

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#74

Post by EricE »

Lammy wrote: post #40
thecal wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used these for over a decade with limited success. Their performance is very specific to your wiring and can be fouled up with lots of things. Mine was sometimes no faster than WiFi. MoCA (Ethernet over coax wiring like for cable/satellite TV) seems to work better.

I had a lot more success with them after popping my electrical panel open and rearranging the relevant outlet circuits to all be on the same AC phase (making sure not to unbalance the amperage load since some were 15As and some were 20)

It would be far easier to just get a phase coupler http://cache-m2.smarthome.com/manuals/4826a.pdf

But brute force works too :)

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#75

Post by bonzini »

inetknght wrote: post #14
geenew wrote: post #4

My main thought reading this as a non-network admin was of Mr Robot, and all the Linux installs on low level hardware used for hacks on that show. Very interesting read and lots of upside to what is discussed, but the thought of the uncountable, almost invisible operating systems running in a large network give me a odd feeling in the pit of my stomach. So many potential places for malfeasance to hide.

Wait until you hear about the Internet of Things

Also known as the Internet of Things That Should Not Be on the Internet.

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#76

Post by josteink »

caminante wrote: post #27

Off-topic, but I just learned about another, practical networking utility, yesterday. "powerline adaptors" [0] Basically, buy these adaptors and for ~$100, you can have create a "wired" LAN connection using power outlets in a home. [0] https://www.techradar.com/news/the-best-powerline-adaptors

> Off-topic, but I just learned about another, practical networking utility, yesterday. "powerline adaptors"

Their performance depends on the electrical wiring in your house.

Ironically for me I’ve only managed to make them work on older electrical installations, and even then it was at best 802.11n speeds.

In my current house (newly built 2018), I can’t even get them to handshake. I suspect it’s due to improved electrical standards and better isolation between different circuits internally in the house, but I honestly don’t know.

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#77

Post by josteink »

stephen_g wrote: post #6
baybal2 wrote: post #3

You don't need ONIE, nor any of that "Open" Compute stuff. Linux has recently got native framework for control of switching chips called "Distributed Switch Architecture." This turns a lot of very cheap hardware with very basic hardware switching chips into high performance routers.

I don’t think there are any DSA drivers for Broadcom switch ICs (like the one in the device in the article) though? At least not in mainline last time I checked… EDIT: No, actually, I was mistaken - there is one Broadcom series supported now I look again, BCM53xx, of which the one in the article does indeed appear to be. Looks like since the 4.8 kernel though, so not in the 4.4 kernel that comes with the device.

OpenWRT 21.02 supports DSA for select devices OOB (replaces swconf) and ships with a really recent 5.4 Linux kernel for all supported devices.

So going for a cheap, 2nd hand router supported by OpenWRT is probably the easiest and cheapest way there.

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#78

Post by jjoonathan »

inetknght wrote: post #14
geenew wrote: post #4

My main thought reading this as a non-network admin was of Mr Robot, and all the Linux installs on low level hardware used for hacks on that show. Very interesting read and lots of upside to what is discussed, but the thought of the uncountable, almost invisible operating systems running in a large network give me a odd feeling in the pit of my stomach. So many potential places for malfeasance to hide.

Wait until you hear about the Internet of Things

The 'S' in 'IoT' stands for Security. (Old but good.)

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#79

Post by cvwright »

EricE wrote: post #73
toast0 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't sound crazy at all, there's not really anything in your breaker panel or your meter or the outside wiring designed to stop these signals, it's just that there's also nothing designed to help the signals make it through all that, so you wouldn't expect it to continue beyond your house. Just like they tend not to work very well when used on different circuits, they shouldn't work very well outside your house, w…

There are phase bridges to ensure powerline signals are on both phases in the typical US house, and phase filters available that filter the powerline frequencies - they were originally conceived not so much for leaking out, but preventing noise from leaking in and interfering with powerline stuff. X10 users have used them for years - you can find them with vendors that specialize in dealing with the X10 community or…

Personally, I've had much better luck with MOCA than with powerline. Full gigabit speeds in an older 1940s house using basic Motorola adapters off of Amazon.

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#80

Post by garaetjjte »

toast0 wrote: post #67
moftz wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you could manage to find some ADSL+ equipment, you are going to tap out at around 48Mbps, I'm not sure if you can push unshielded, twisted 2-pair wire any faster. One downside would be that all of the phone jacks in the house are tied together, it would be a A->B kind of connection. I regularly get much faster speeds with my powerline adapters and if you have multiples paired, they create an actual network on…

If you've got two pair, you can probably run 100BaseTx, even if the cable is not up to cat5 spec, especially if the runs are short and separated from other lines; Ethernet specs are for 100 meter distances most of which is in a tight conduit with other high frequency data transmissions. Old in-home phone wiring is likely not tightly packed or very long. If you've got an old house with old telephone wiring, it's proba…

>If you've got two pair, you can probably run 100BaseTx

Well, 100BASE-TX will also run on single pair in half-duplex mode.

Alternatively you can also use powerline adapters over any cabling (twisted pair/coax/whatever). Just instead of connecting adapter prongs to power socket, connect to your cable and feed there enough power to supply the adapters. Around 50V DC (as commonly used by PoE supplies) will probably be enough.

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