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Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

scientificamerican.com

131–140 of 148 posts

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#131
post #24

Mindfulness isn't "thinking about chopping onions while chopping onions." Mindfulness is chopping onions. The confusion is that "developing" mindfulness means recognizing when, while chopping onions, you're instead thinking about work, or that embarrassing moment from years ago. There are meditation practices, like "noting", that have you think or say what you're doing while you're doing it. But this is an exercise t…

so it's similar to [programmer's] flow ?

Yes

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apology for the slight detour, I wonder if pianists/drummers have a leg up on this. The multiple parallel layers (hands/melody/chords for piano, polyrythms mapped over all limbs). This forces your brain to handle many things at once yet focus on a single whole. In my small experience it was highly meditative (and very deeply stimulating for the brain).

Don't apologise, I've wondered the same thing many times! One way of categorising meditation is single pointed (basically, one object of attention) and many pointed (many objects, usually contemplative and attempted after skill in single pointed techniques, though not always - vipassana as an example), though one can become the other. I'm not sure that something with many things to concentrate on will help foster lev…

> even things we like and enjoy can feel like work if we feel we should do it, or have to do it, or we get no variety

This is what modern society produces. I often try to turn chores into joy, or games. When you think about it, the difference in labour and fun is small.. Doing 200 pushups or 200 wipes on the floor, both can be nice and beneficial. People should frame stuff this way. The issue is that social structures make that difficult, you can rarely tell your boss "hmm i'm gonna do it this way because I feel better" your 'self' has no place in a work group so you become a slave and suffer.

A lot of people consider music like a semi transe. Drums are special because of the apparent simplicity in gesture and sound, but even broken scales can be deeply infatuating.

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#133
post #55

A lot of these posts here on HN regarding meditation and mindfulness sound like what you would hear from an 'intergalactic encyclopedia salesman'. Just a different faith. It's dressed up in the mystery of 'teachings' and 'feelings' and other vague notions. It feels like someone has set up an industry that's raking in a lot of money and all the converts perpetuate it. Perhaps they buy into it or maybe they try to just…

Interesting, my experience differs from yours. I got the recommendation of "Mind Illuminated" here on HN, a super valuable book for people into meditation IMHO, maybe the best?

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#134
post #55

A lot of these posts here on HN regarding meditation and mindfulness sound like what you would hear from an 'intergalactic encyclopedia salesman'. Just a different faith. It's dressed up in the mystery of 'teachings' and 'feelings' and other vague notions. It feels like someone has set up an industry that's raking in a lot of money and all the converts perpetuate it. Perhaps they buy into it or maybe they try to just…

New Age never died, it just transformed. That's how I see it. And you don't have to be this cynic about it, people need spirituality and will create it and sustain it even without business interests. But of course, where there's demand somebody will come up with supply to sell. I suspect myself ulterior motives in de facto influencers who promote mindfulness. But again not necessarily in a cynical way, I think most r…

Interesting thought. Jonathan Haidt has a chapter about spirituality in his book "The Happiness Hypothesis: Finding Modern Truth in Ancient Wisdom".

I had a thought some days ago: "Maybe the rise of QAnon, and other similar outlandish ideas, stems from a spirituality vacuum. Given Nietzsches' proclamation and the continuing destruction of their own credibility by the catholic church and other religious organizations, it seems to me those people seem to try to fill their spiritual void with something. Maybe a need for shared consensus or values, which postmodern society does not supply."

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#135
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Enlightened” people have existed in all walks of life, not just Buddhism. In fact one could see Buddhism as annoyingly codifying into a religion that which is natural and obvious. Just like Christianity.

According to the Buddha, his path is the only one to nirvana.

Many enlightened Indians didn’t follow Buddha’s path — and in fact followed a variety of paths.

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the Buddha, his path is the only one to nirvana.

Many enlightened Indians didn’t follow Buddha’s path — and in fact followed a variety of paths.

Then they are not enlightened in the sense meant in Buddhism, that is, they have not attained Arhatship nor become awakened Bodhisattvas nor Buddhas. They haven't extinguished the causes for rebirth, and are still bound to the samsaric cycle.

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#137
post #24

Mindfulness isn't "thinking about chopping onions while chopping onions." Mindfulness is chopping onions. The confusion is that "developing" mindfulness means recognizing when, while chopping onions, you're instead thinking about work, or that embarrassing moment from years ago. There are meditation practices, like "noting", that have you think or say what you're doing while you're doing it. But this is an exercise t…

so it's similar to [programmer's] flow ?

I think a mindfulness teacher would describe what you refer to as flow as absorbed awareness. The alternative would be panoramic awareness, where you aren't just focused on one thing (the problem you're solving) but you are aware of everything that is going on in the moment.

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#138
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

mindfulness is almost an opposite of thinking.

No. Mindfulness is "thinking when thinking, walking when walking, shitting when shitting".

No, mindfulness is more “watching while thinking, watching while walking, watching when shitting”

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#139
post #47

As a musician what happens when you don't think and just do is often superior than when you are mindful of every tiny detail of your hands movement (it can even happen that you are downright unable to play if you are too aware of what you are doing). This kind of focus is important when practising, but on stage it should just be there with the sound, not sure whether this would be called mindful or the opposite. Mind…

I believe western school of music is too much on the analytical side of this. Indian music a bit too. While other cultures are more on plugging into "feel" and letting things emerge/flow.

I am a improvisational musician for a reason.

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many enlightened Indians didn’t follow Buddha’s path — and in fact followed a variety of paths.

Then they are not enlightened in the sense meant in Buddhism, that is, they have not attained Arhatship nor become awakened Bodhisattvas nor Buddhas. They haven't extinguished the causes for rebirth, and are still bound to the samsaric cycle.

I don't buy that. For example Ramana Maharshi was awakened and he self-realized suddenly without following any path. There were awakened people before Buddha, and there are awakened people today without having followed any path.

The idea that only Buddhism holds the keys to self-realization is dangerous, frankly. The Catholic Church want you to believe the same thing, that only the Papal hierarchy can direct you to God.

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