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How big tech runs tech projects and the curious absence of Scrum

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Re: How big tech runs tech projects and the curious absence of Scrum

#301

Post by knightofmars »

snuser wrote: post #249
optymizer wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, junior developers like the rigid structure and senior developers would prefer more flexibility. Companies that implement agile to the letter typically treat their developers like consultants. You're treated as a mindless drone that is supposed to work on tasks that were predefined for you. You might as well be outsourced. I found that kanban-style works better imo. A prioritized backlog where you pi…

Every company I've worked at that followed some sort of rigid scrum process has suffered from burnout and general failure in one form or another It treats developers like consultants because it's really designed for agencies working on one-off short-burst projects ( this is the only setting I've seen it have a positive effect ) by nature it just chews people up if it becomes a day-to-day practice, the whole process r…

I'm not surprised, I see "rigid scrum" as an oxymoron.

Re: How big tech runs tech projects and the curious absence of Scrum

#302

Post by modeless »

romanhn wrote: post #212

My sole experience in Big Tech consists of Facebook and the post more or less matches what I saw there. It seems to me, though, that the author views "no process" from a very positive lens, with no discussion of negatives. Like how at FB so many teams use spreadsheets to track their work (sometimes multiple spreadsheets per team, sometimes no tracking at all). There is some internal tooling, which is quite basic and…

> Whatever you say about JIRA, it can handle complex projects way better than a spreadsheet.

Frankly I have had a much better experience on teams that tracked work in spreadsheets than teams that tracked work in JIRA. Like it's not even close.

Re: How big tech runs tech projects and the curious absence of Scrum

#303

Post by void_mint »

arcbyte wrote: post #89
throwaway5752 wrote: post #29

I really want to say this: SAFe is an awful process and a trend that will hopefully go the way of Unified Process/RUP. I won't go into it, but it's largely created and popularized by a vendor to sell their software. It is poison and exists to keep its practitioners employed. It attracts the highest-ego PMs like moths. I find it interesting that they author references Skype circa 2012. It sounds like classic "uppercas…

As a Dev, I loved SAFE. It changed everything about how our program operated to the point our delivery became extremely predictable and we still had every 9th and 10th week to tinker on new ideas or do refactoring and cleanup where we wanted. That program purred like nothing else I've ever been a part of. Senior leaders sat with devs, started talking to everyone about their priorities - people we had never seen befor…

As with all "Agile Frameworks", they are marketed as "If it worked it's because you did it right, and if it didn't work it's because you didn't do it right".

Is something actually valuable if it is A.) Inflexible and B.) Rarely goes well?

Re: How big tech runs tech projects and the curious absence of Scrum

#304

Post by knightofmars »

This item stands out as one of the most important aspects that is either unknown or ignored in companies. The amount of information a person has access to drastically alters their ability to make informed decisions.

"Exposure to the business and to business metrics. Engineers are encouraged to interact with the rest of the business and build relationships with non-engineers. In contrast, traditional companies often make it impossible for developers to interact with the rest of the business."

Re: How big tech runs tech projects and the curious absence of Scrum

#305

Post by marcus_holmes »

Reading this, I'm struck by a thought: Are we the bad guys?

According to the article, what the big tech companies have in common is engineer-led products. It's not the besuited MBA's making product decisions, it's us, the engineers.

And the big tech companies are also united in having evil products. With the possible exception of Shopify and Datadog, every company on that list of "big tech" is doing things that actively harm society.

Cue the "are we the baddies?" meme [0]. If engineers are left to build products by ourselves, do we build things because we can and not because we should?

[0] from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK-kWRAVmRU

Re: How big tech runs tech projects and the curious absence of Scrum

#306

Post by Jensson »

jkingsbery wrote: post #293

As someone who currently works at a Big Tech company, but spent most of his career prior to that at smaller companies, I found this article very confusing. First of all, I work at Amazon (and posting this under our social media policy, this is just my experience, and I don't speak for the company), and Scrum is pervasive at Amazon. The article is right that many big projects start with a 6 pager, but once teams start…

Pretty sure the article refers to Google, Facebook and the companies trying to be like them. Apple and Amazon works quite differently as you say.

Re: How big tech runs tech projects and the curious absence of Scrum

#307

Post by mbeex »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #267
mbeex wrote: post #164

I was there when Agile was invented. In my opinion, Scrum has always been the worst embodiment of a good idea. In terms of content, teams of experienced developers have always worked in the spirit of Agile (of course there are exceptions). This informal understanding was and is superior to a formal horizontal Scrum implementation. For example, it preserves seniority and true accountability - two things that Scrum pre…

> These days, mandatory Scrum is a contra-indicator for any project that crosses my path as a freelancer. Hmm. Scrum seems like a relatively good means of aligning two-parties with low-context.

> low-context

I understand where you're coming from, a lot of freelance work these days is just code grinding for a short or maybe longer period of time.

My projects are not of this type. Most of the time they are a mixture of specialized mathematics, software design and implementation.

Re: How big tech runs tech projects and the curious absence of Scrum

#308

Post by Jensson »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #305

Reading this, I'm struck by a thought: Are we the bad guys? According to the article, what the big tech companies have in common is engineer-led products. It's not the besuited MBA's making product decisions, it's us, the engineers. And the big tech companies are also united in having evil products. With the possible exception of Shopify and Datadog, every company on that list of "big tech" is doing things that activ…

Pay engineers to optimize a number and they will, that is all you need to do. In this case they told engineers to optimize the number of ads clicked and then the engineers self organized and did the rest.

Re: How big tech runs tech projects and the curious absence of Scrum

#309

Post by tootie »

mbeex wrote: post #164

I was there when Agile was invented. In my opinion, Scrum has always been the worst embodiment of a good idea. In terms of content, teams of experienced developers have always worked in the spirit of Agile (of course there are exceptions). This informal understanding was and is superior to a formal horizontal Scrum implementation. For example, it preserves seniority and true accountability - two things that Scrum pre…

I always viewed Scrum as training wheels. I've imposed it on teams who were dysfunctional as a way to get them on the rails. Hands and feet inside the car. Child safety locks engaged. It's a bit patronizing, but if you've ever worked with an unengaged team, it can be necessary. If you do it well, the team gets the feel for what agile delivery feels like and don't need the rituals to know what kind of touchpoints are actually required. Like the bottom of the Dreyfus model of skill acquisition. If you're "Big Tech" and have only hired the best and brightest and are working on enthralling problems, you tend to get people at the top of the pyramid who just run agile even when you don't tell them to.

Re: How big tech runs tech projects and the curious absence of Scrum

#310

Post by ironmagma »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #270
ironmagma wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I want to be able to represent myself as authoritatively as the guy who proclaims to be “scrum certified,” as though scrum is so valuable as to have a certification.

Did you miss the /s by any chance? I pray to god that you did.

I guess I'll keep you guessing.
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