The Mom Test – How to talk to customers • Hacker News Board

Re: The Mom Test – How to talk to customers

#101

Post by decasia » Mon, Sep 27, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

decasia wrote: post #90

Some moms are software developers themselves. Without intending to, I do think that this title tends to reinforce the widespread assumption that programmers are men by default, while moms are, at most, "customers." A better title would just be "How to talk to customers." Meta comment: It's intellectually unfortunate that there's so much kneejerk hostility on HN to basic gender analysis. One's understanding of the wor…

As a point of method: We can and should distinguish "What the author intended" from "what is the unintended side effect of this use of language."

I'm explicitly not commenting on what the author intended to mean by this title choice (yes, a "person who is uncritically affirmative"). (I have absolutely no axe to grind with the author either, just for the record!)

But generally speaking, it's fair to comment on the unintended side effects of someone's use of language, because there are always side effects when we use language. That's how language is -- it exceeds our intentions, because it's a legacy tool with generations of unexplored cultural baggage, to put it in an idiom that software folks might appreciate.

Re: The Mom Test – How to talk to customers

#102

Post by enumjorge » Mon, Sep 27, 2021, 2:19 PM UTC

decasia wrote: post #90

Some moms are software developers themselves. Without intending to, I do think that this title tends to reinforce the widespread assumption that programmers are men by default, while moms are, at most, "customers." A better title would just be "How to talk to customers." Meta comment: It's intellectually unfortunate that there's so much kneejerk hostility on HN to basic gender analysis. One's understanding of the wor…

> A better title would just be "How to talk to customers."

Hard disagree. That title doesn’t capture the reader’s attention and it’s also less descriptive of the main point of the book.

Re: The Mom Test – How to talk to customers

#103

Post by macando » Mon, Sep 27, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

12ian34 wrote: post #52

macando wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most non-fiction books could be long essays at best. Books are usually padded with needless repetition and anecdotes.

Really agree with this. If you have time I'd appreciate to hear some of your favourite high-value concise non-fiction books of any discipline...?

My other favorites are Traction, Peopleware and Made to Stick. However, they are 230+ pages long. Pretty consise, but I think they could have been shorter.

There aren't many non-fiction books that are 150p and less. Hmmm

Re: The Mom Test – How to talk to customers

#104

Post by b20000 » Mon, Sep 27, 2021, 2:31 PM UTC

what is better than talking to customers is shutting up and watching them. they will tell you X and then do Y.

Re: The Mom Test – How to talk to customers

#105

Post by b20000 » Mon, Sep 27, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

this assumes that your business can only succeed if you solve a problem. you don’t need to solve a problem to make a lot of money. people buy things they don’t need all the time. all you need to do is make something they want and whether they want to pay for it. this might not need any conversation with customers at all.

Re: The Mom Test – How to talk to customers

#106

Post by yololol » Mon, Sep 27, 2021, 2:39 PM UTC

decasia wrote: post #90

Some moms are software developers themselves. Without intending to, I do think that this title tends to reinforce the widespread assumption that programmers are men by default, while moms are, at most, "customers." A better title would just be "How to talk to customers." Meta comment: It's intellectually unfortunate that there's so much kneejerk hostility on HN to basic gender analysis. One's understanding of the wor…

> It's intellectually unfortunate that there's so much kneejerk hostility on HN to basic gender analysis. One's understanding of the world is enriched by thinking about how gender roles work, so the hostility to gender analysis is basically throwing away useful knowledge.

I hope this comment will be seen as constructive rather than hostile: Personally while I was initially sympathizing to the cause of inclusiveness, I have now developed hostile feelings simply because this constant presence has made me tired. There is no place on the internet or IRL (at least where I live) where you won't stumble on these things. I am not interested about any of the gender stuff, I have been sure of what I am and what I am not since I can remember myself, so all this constant presence makes me tired, and it frankly feels like propaganda trying to forcefully change me into something I'm not. So pushing so agressivly an agenda that to the majority of people is irrelevant (and I believe this is true otherwise we wouldn't exist as a species), I am actually surprised of how little hostility is received.

Re: The Mom Test – How to talk to customers

#107

Post by rfrey » Mon, Sep 27, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

decasia wrote: post #90

Some moms are software developers themselves. Without intending to, I do think that this title tends to reinforce the widespread assumption that programmers are men by default, while moms are, at most, "customers." A better title would just be "How to talk to customers." Meta comment: It's intellectually unfortunate that there's so much kneejerk hostility on HN to basic gender analysis. One's understanding of the wor…

Any perceived hostility may come from your very uncharitable read of the the title. The reference isn't any mom, and there isn't any suggestion that moms can't be programmers or are clueless in any way.

The reference is your own mom, who will tell you that your idea is great, even if it's not. You're swinging at shadows.

Re: The Mom Test – How to talk to customers

#108

Post by handrous » Mon, Sep 27, 2021, 3:12 PM UTC

macando wrote: post #7

Best book on early stage startups period. And it's barely 100 pages long. My favorite quote from it: “Someone should definitely make an X!” “Have you looked for an X?” “No, why?” “There are like 10 different kinds of X.” “Well I didn't really need it anyway.” Long story short, that person is a complainer, not a customer. They’re stuck in the la-la-land of imagining they’re the sort of person who finds clever ways to…

God, I get that one, unsolicited, All. The. Time. It may be the only kind of unsolicited "idea for a product" I've ever gotten, actually.

"You make apps? I have a great app idea that'll make you rich! All of us in [profession] would use it! You see... [explains idea].... It would save me hours every week and no one's done it yet, for some reason!"

Me: searches the App Store You mean like any of these first five results that are all literally the exact thing you're describing, are targeted at your profession, and that you want sooooo much that you've never even bothered to search for it and plunk down consults screen $14.99?"

Re: The Mom Test – How to talk to customers

#109

Post by tishha » Mon, Sep 27, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

robfitz wrote: post #23

Heya, author here. Fun to see this. I wrote the book after becoming hugely frustrated as an introverted technical founder trying to "talk to customers" but finding zero books about sales/interviews/etc that spoke to my context. That first company (yc s07) failed just as I started to figure it all out, but the casual approach proved useful (and comfortable) in my future businesses, so I wanted to document it for other…

Great idea! Thank you for the book

Re: The Mom Test – How to talk to customers

#110

Post by foxbee » Mon, Sep 27, 2021, 3:53 PM UTC

We used the blueprint within this group to learn from 6000 signups. It led to us (Budibase) pivoting and saving countless hours and money, but most importantly, it's helped us reduce stress, build a better product, and deliver exactly what our users need.

Huge appreciation - thank you! Joe (cofounder of Budibase)