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I just don’t want to be busy anymore

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Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#371

Post by pwdisswordfish0 »

itronitron wrote: post #167
pwdisswordfish0 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't underestimate the practicality of telling people to fuck off, even if it will have to be put in different words. If for some reason that's not practical, then that's a problem in itself, so try working on that. As harsh as it might sound to put it this way, the answer for how some people will be able to manage better with their SO and kids is, "because I don't have your SO and kids for my SO and kids," or more…

>> Don't underestimate the practicality of telling people to fuck off, even if it will have to be put in different words. A valuable (possibly the most?) life skill is to be able to tell people to fuck off in the most sincere and HR approved way imaginable, it's very empowering, would recommend 10 for 10.

Not what I was talking about. What you're describing is a great way to make your co-workers hate you (or make your subordinates hate working for you if you have any and you tolerate this style of communication) while telling yourself how clever you are for figuring out how to flip the script on the system. It's not clever at all. Anyone with a brain can see what's going on when you do it, and it shouldn't be permitted just because someone managed to make their barbs in subtext, rather than explicitly peppering in words like "fuck you." Not-clever toxic passive aggression is one of the worst contributions that office culture has "given" to modern society. And it's certainly not something that makes sense for someone to recommend weaponizing against one's family...

The practicality of telling people to fuck off means saying the equivalent of, "I need you to fuck off right now [so I can take care of something important without any distractions/obstructions]," ideally having cultivated the kind of relationship where the receivers understand that importance, whether it's stated plainly or merely implied.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#372

Post by pjmlp »

datavirtue wrote: post #359
pjmlp wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Career is something imposed by companies where HR cannot phantom why people like to keep doing what they love, instead of being endless promoted until they aren't fit for the position.

Yeah, this dynamic is what causes me to avoid big companies. As soon as you hire on you get attacked with career goals, assumptions that you want to move up (I'm senior so I already make enough money and have no interest in "moving up"), and being asked to do the litany of things required to move up. Maddening. Especially when you tell several of your bosses directly that you are good and that you already have the po…

Yeah, I share the feeling.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#373

Post by caminante »

rightbyte wrote: post #338
mrtksn wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s my main issue with the way our society is structured. There’s a class difference between those who own a property and those who don’t even if they do the exactly same job. I don’t even talk about the people who have not done single contribution to the society and live of on the rent of inherited properties. It’s like the peasants who work all day and have nothing when people from blue blood are having generati…

Ye. You need to own "the means of production", which in eg. New York or SV is the house you live in, since the house is the reason you can work close to the easy money. A friend is thinking about to open a restaurant in a very attractive location, but I said, if you don't own the property the restaurant is in, the land lord will just increase rent until the any profit is barely OK anyways. There is no money in that.

> if you don't own the property the restaurant is in, the land lord will just increase rent until the any profit is barely OK anyways.

Then, contract around it with a capped escalation factor? And doesn't this apply to any renting space?

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#374

Post by snarf21 »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #109

One thing that helped me is not to care so much about my employer's goals. It's almost heretical. But once you embrace this mindset, it does wonders. Or at least, it has for me so far. I think a lot of us want to be proud of the work we do, and we feel that if we slack off, then we shouldn't be proud. But it's the other way around. I think the slackers have it right. You're probably not going to get rich from working…

Well said. It is frustrating with the "everything is an emergency" mindset at some companies. I far along in my career that I just let it slide off but others aren't. We had a potential customer that was definitely going to sign a contract on Monday so another engineer spent all weekend getting a new rack mount computer all set up. That was four weeks ago and no one has heard anything from them. The bosses think they they are helping to keep everyone motivated and moving forward but they don't get how bad it is for morale. Everything can't be most important.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#375

Post by symlinkk »

tartoran wrote: post #94
tudelo wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

any more details on "positive effects"? Have you had blood work?

I’ve done bloodwork prior to taking Ashwaganda and will do again in two to three months. Testosterone was low, not excessively so but was feeling exhausted and unmotivated. Ashwaganda appears to have given me the energy and motivation back but I’ve only been taking it for a week so am not exactly sure how I’ll fare in the longer term. It gave me enough energy to work out now so Im hoping to raise my energy to prior l…

> I’ve only been taking it for a week

Why even suggest it then?

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#376

Post by iSnow »

gitgud wrote: post #363
5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree. Don't be "pro-active" be "re-active" - is my way of putting it. Frankly, most orgs will not reward pro-activity, in fact you can even be punished for it, since if a problem is not yet known by stakeholders then why are you solving it. There have been times in my career where I spotted issues from other teams on preview or staging servers and helped to fix it. Then I later got blamed (or dragged into…

> Don't be "pro-active" be "re-active" Highly reactive employees and companies end up being left in the dark and given short notice on everything... leading to more stress A balance between pro-active and re-active is ideal.

I found the perfect balance to be very pro-active and resourceful at the beginning of a project, both to structure it in a way that suits me and make a good impression. Later, not so much. And I am not lazy, but being too active means other team members (or even the customers) get too little say.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#377

Post by sudoit »

snarf21 wrote: post #374
sillysaurusx wrote: post #109

One thing that helped me is not to care so much about my employer's goals. It's almost heretical. But once you embrace this mindset, it does wonders. Or at least, it has for me so far. I think a lot of us want to be proud of the work we do, and we feel that if we slack off, then we shouldn't be proud. But it's the other way around. I think the slackers have it right. You're probably not going to get rich from working…

Well said. It is frustrating with the "everything is an emergency" mindset at some companies. I far along in my career that I just let it slide off but others aren't. We had a potential customer that was definitely going to sign a contract on Monday so another engineer spent all weekend getting a new rack mount computer all set up. That was four weeks ago and no one has heard anything from them. The bosses think they…

Bingo. 90% of the things I broke my back over because “it was an emergency” got scraped or abandoned a week later. And my ex-employer was wondering why our team turnover was through the roof.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#378

Post by krallja »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #109

One thing that helped me is not to care so much about my employer's goals. It's almost heretical. But once you embrace this mindset, it does wonders. Or at least, it has for me so far. I think a lot of us want to be proud of the work we do, and we feel that if we slack off, then we shouldn't be proud. But it's the other way around. I think the slackers have it right. You're probably not going to get rich from working…

This sounds like you’ve shifted from the “clueless” to the “loser” archetype in Ribbonfarm’s Gervais Principle (https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...) — ignore the insulting names for all three archetypes, I think you’re exactly right about how to reclaim the balance of power between labor and capital.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#379

Post by bumby »

snowwrestler wrote: post #236
bumby wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is tough if you actually try to have a team-oriented mindset. I’ve worked in groups (hard to really call them a team) where everyone, everyone , stiff armed duties. The end result is that the hard stuff, or low status stuff, never got done. I get there’s a balance, but if you entered a career where you actually care about the mission, it’s hard to just see that mission suffer because people want to take the easy…

Hospitals and contractors are great examples of professional fields where job roles are well-defined and the hours worked are carefully tracked. When contractors get too busy, they tell clients their project is delayed. When ER or ICU resources are maxed out, they stop accepting patients and send them to other nearby hospitals. When clinics are fully booked, they stop making appointments. I understand what you’re say…

Having personally worked in both healthcare and construction (sometimes even healthcare construction), I disagree.

Roles are not nearly as defined as you suggest. Take construction: there will always be conflicts between sub-domains. If there’s a clash between disciplines there’s nothing more frustrating than two sub-contractors who point to each other as the one who must “own” the problem to fix it. Same thing in healthcare. A surgeon who won’t do a task because they believe it’s beneath them is not benefiting the patient.

I don’t think most missions are capable of having clearly defined roles like you suggest. There will always be jobs that fall in the gray area and that’s why almost every job I’ve had included a “and other duties as assigned.”

I agree that perspective is important, but that’s talking about prioritization not shirking duties. I also understand burn out is a real risk, but I don’t think the right mitigation is taking a "that's not my job" perspective; I'd much rather see someone work with their supervisor to say, "here's where that falls in my current priorities". "It's not my job" tends to results in un-productive finger pointing or venting as opposed to actually aligning one's work with what's important to the shared mission.

I want to work with problem solvers not people who identify with strictly defined roles.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#380

Post by bumby »

snowwrestler wrote: post #258
Kranar wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contractors is overly broad but plenty of contractors work overtime and very long, stressful hours including weekends and holidays. Hospitals on the other hand, you're just downright wrong about that. Not only in general do hospital staff work 12 hour shifts including being on-call and having to work abrupt hours, especially over the past year their hours have been absolutely ridiculous. This includes nurses and MDs.…

I don’t need studies, I have a number of friends and family who are doctors and nurses. You completely missed my point, which is that it is ridiculous for tech companies to compare themselves to a profession that faces literally life and death situations. Comparing to “the past year” (i.e. a historic global pandemic) just highlights the absurdity. Your OKRs are not COVID patients!

>tech companies to compare themselves to a profession that faces literally life and death situations

I think you have a narrowly defined scope of “tech”. What about the software that controls the Da Vinci robot in the operating room? Do you want someone to say “eh, code quality checks aren’t my job?” Or the person writing flight software for aircraft? Or the safety critical software for a power plant?

The point being, yes, perspective is important but it’s a difference of degree not of kind.

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