Why are restaurant websites so awful? Because of restaurant culture. • Hacker News Board

Re: Why are restaurant websites so awful? Because of restaurant culture.

#81

Post by simonw » Wed, Aug 10, 2011, 5:26 AM UTC

tomkarlo wrote: post #40

Goladus wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My question on this issue is: Is a PDF download really so bad? It's getting better, but it's still a hassle to download and open a pdf. Well-designed html is much preferred for me. That said, a well-designed PDF that downloads quickly is better than a poorly-designed menu section that loads slowly or worse, is inaccurate.

Yes, it's really bad, because it's generally totally unnecessary. Menus are generally almost entirely text (unless you're at McDonald's or the Chinese take-out), so there's essentially zero gain from making them a PDF. Meanwhile, they're slower to load and if you're on a device that doesn't support PDF, you're just SOL.

Menus are way more than just text - the layout, relative sizing etc are often very carefully designed to Make More Money.

Salon had an article about this last year: http://www.salon.com/food/francis_lam/2010/02/22/how_menus_m...

Re: Why are restaurant websites so awful? Because of restaurant culture.

#82

Post by InclinedPlane » Wed, Aug 10, 2011, 5:44 AM UTC

irrumator wrote: post #50

mashmac2 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, the question is, how do we show the restaurant owners that having a better website will increase their revenue?

Why are you so sure it will? Can you give me use cases or examples where a restaurant owner stands to make money from his site anywhere other than booking reservations possibly?

Websites are marketing. The most lucrative demographic for restaurants tends to be the 20s through 40s crowd, which is also the most likely to use the web to find and make a decision on a restaurant. Lowering the friction for finding out key information such as hours, location, menu, prices, etc. also lowers the friction for deciding to visit a restaurant, and that's dollars in the owners pocket.

Re: Why are restaurant websites so awful? Because of restaurant culture.

#83

Post by skrebbel » Wed, Aug 10, 2011, 5:45 AM UTC

I can't relate to this at all. Restaurants in my area have crappy sites, but none of them annoying in ways this article describes. They're just a bit old, or the text is too small, or the pictures are ugly. You know, the usual.

Is this SF local news? If so, why is it on HN?

Re: Why are restaurant websites so awful? Because of restaurant culture.

#84

Post by lancewiggs » Wed, Aug 10, 2011, 6:17 AM UTC

tibbon wrote: post #58

I was talking to a local business owner who runs a new Takoyaki place in town. I mentioned he didn't have a website. We had a good conversation about it, and he was hoping to get one up but wasn't quite sure what he needed. He's a young guy a pretty savvy overall, having acquired around 4,000 Likes on Facebook and frequently updating it. I told him (and he seemed to agree) that he needed a simple website that was the…

What a great idea to do it for him, but perhaps use Wordpress.com so he can more easily edit the result.

Re: Why are restaurant websites so awful? Because of restaurant culture.

#85

Post by HSO » Wed, Aug 10, 2011, 6:21 AM UTC

jdminhbg wrote: post #59

encoderer wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another reason certainly is a lack of resources (cash) to commit to the project. Sure, an established, profitable restaurant should have no trouble funding a modest, tidy, professionally built site. But the truth is, most restaurants youre visiting aren't "established" and "profitable."

The restaurant website topic comes up frequently, and this is a frequent response. But there are two reasons it's clearly wrong: 1) Restaurants could jam their hours and menu onto a free theme for much less money than they spend getting a bespoke Flash monstrosity and be vastly more usable, yet do the latter anyway. 2) There are lots of cash-strapped small businesses around that don't have as uniformly unusable websi…

I think you are both right, once you "de-identify" said resources and cash. That is, the constraint here is not cash but brains/skills/knowledge/time/effort. Many people simply don't know what is possible. I used to run continuously into this kind of problem when I worked for other people (guys who just don't know what is _possible_, not even talking about being able to do it).

Re: Why are restaurant websites so awful? Because of restaurant culture.

#86

Post by Luyt » Wed, Aug 10, 2011, 6:52 AM UTC

"a series of menu buttons that aren't labeled; you've got to mouse over each one to find out what you're about to click on"

This actually has a name: 'Mystery Meat Navigation'[1]. It's one of the most irritating usability ailments. I thought it was extinct by now, but apparently it's still used on restaurant sites. It used to be quite popular on art- and band-related sites, some ten years ago.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_meat_navigation

Re: Why are restaurant websites so awful? Because of restaurant culture.

#87

Post by aw3c2 » Wed, Aug 10, 2011, 6:53 AM UTC

wallflower wrote: post #12

Shake Shack ( http://shakeshack.com on mobile device or http://shakeshack.com/mobile/ ) is an example of a beautifully designed, minimal, useful mobile web site. Mobile websites are more than putting a mobile template on. Contrast Shake Shack with Walmart's http://walmart.com (on a mobile device) > However, the design firm pitches to the owner, not to the customers. And thus the website is designed to please them, ra…

> Shake Shack (http://shakeshack.com on mobile device or http://shakeshack.com/mobile/) is an example of a beautifully designed, minimal, useful mobile web site.

To enjoy the full website you need Flash 9 or greater. Please visit this website using a web browser with Flash 9 or greater installed. DOWNLOAD IT HERE.

no comment

...

The mobile site is kinda cute but a mess in terms of usability:

On http://shakeshack.com/mobile/menu/ links are not marked.

On http://shakeshack.com/mobile/locations/ everything looks like a link.

On eg http://shakeshack.com/mobile/menu/citifield.php the categories are not divided well, it is not clear where the category "text icons" belong to.

http://shakeshack.com/mobile/shackfans/ is serving huge (multiple hundreds of kilobytes) photos.

I would not call that a good example. The idea and structure is good(!) but execution is not so great.

Re: Why are restaurant websites so awful? Because of restaurant culture.

#88

Post by justincormack » Wed, Aug 10, 2011, 7:26 AM UTC

6ren wrote: post #8

Counterpoint: do restaurant customers (i.e. ordinary people) also think these websites are awful? When I see a website like that, I just think "it's not targeting me". Also, I've actually given up on all websites of non-internet companies, including big retailers. It's just too tedious to find information, too slow loading. Their mobile sites often load quicker. but have even less info. You're better off ringing them…

I dont think they find them most of the time. The flash sites have such bad SEO that normally I find a review or comparison site first.

Re: Why are restaurant websites so awful? Because of restaurant culture.

#89

Post by dagw » Wed, Aug 10, 2011, 7:50 AM UTC

ZoFreX wrote: post #2

As someone who has built a fair few restaurant sites, there are lots of reasons. If a web design agency builds a site that doesn't work on the iPhone or iPad, which are both now considered critical to restaurant marketing, they get to charge extra for creating an iOS specific version, or an app, or whatever. If you create one site that works great on everything, you make less money. Restaurants are also sometimes run…

in recent news the "best restaurant in the world" shut down, having never made a profit!

I think you're seriously mis-representing that story. First of all the restaurant didn't shut down because it wasn't making money, but because Ferran (the head chef/owner) simply wanted to do something else. Secondly Ferran has stated several times that running the restaurant at a loss is a conscious decision. He could easily turn a profit, but that would mean being open all year (the restaurant was only open 6 month of the year), charging higher prices, and compromising on the food, non of which he had any interest in doing. He sees owning the "best restaurant in the world" as a marketing tool, and a place to park his R&D expenditure for his other food ventures, and more than makes up for those losses with his other food businesses.

Re: Why are restaurant websites so awful? Because of restaurant culture.

#90

Post by corin_ » Wed, Aug 10, 2011, 8:30 AM UTC

tibbon wrote: post #58

I was talking to a local business owner who runs a new Takoyaki place in town. I mentioned he didn't have a website. We had a good conversation about it, and he was hoping to get one up but wasn't quite sure what he needed. He's a young guy a pretty savvy overall, having acquired around 4,000 Likes on Facebook and frequently updating it. I told him (and he seemed to agree) that he needed a simple website that was the…

There's a genius business plan - well, perhaps "business" plan is slightly over-selling it.

Spend a little time creating some really nice restaurant websites for a small number of your favourite local places (ones with either no website or a terrible website), offer it for free, with free hosting, and free updates, in return for free meals.

Get a few of those done, and spend a few days a week eating out for free, in the knowledge that you're helping friendly local businesses whose services you've always enjoyed.