> "Strings may be single quoted." What's the point? I cringe every time a project uses both double quote and single quote, a mix of semicolon and no semicolon and a mix of tabs and space, .... Which one to pick isn't relevant as soon as the code base is consistent
It allows you to put double quotes in the string without escaping them, which is pretty nice.
JSON5 Data Interchange Format
51–60 of 157 posts
Re: JSON5 Data Interchange Format
#52> "Strings may be single quoted." What's the point? I cringe every time a project uses both double quote and single quote, a mix of semicolon and no semicolon and a mix of tabs and space, .... Which one to pick isn't relevant as soon as the code base is consistent
Some code bases use single quotes, and it's annoying to copy/paste an object from that code into a JSON objdct and have to change the quotes.
Re: JSON5 Data Interchange Format
#53I know it’s not trendy but consider XML and schema at this point. XML allows all this to be expressed and more and schema allows the creation of integration contracts that can be validated at both ends. Tooling and libraries are mature.
Re: JSON5 Data Interchange Format
#54Re: JSON5 Data Interchange Format
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
What if you want both? E.g., how would you put the following sentence in a string: You can use both " and ' to delimit a string.
You'd use escapes: "You can use both \" and ' to delimit a string"
Re: JSON5 Data Interchange Format
#56I know it’s not trendy but consider XML and schema at this point. XML allows all this to be expressed and more and schema allows the creation of integration contracts that can be validated at both ends. Tooling and libraries are mature.
I want to love XML schemas, but to call them mature is a stretch. There's a bunch of important features hidden behind XSD 1.1, which is almost 10 years old by now, yet most software that validates XML on schemas does not support that yet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RELAX_NG
RELAX NG has a clearly focused sound mathematical underpinning: regular expressions applied to trees, while XML Schema is an ad-hoc hot mess designed by committee.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML_schema#RELAX_NG
Any decent JSON schema language should take its cues and learn from the design of RELAX NG, and not repeat the mistakes of XML Schema.
Makoto Murata raised some critical points about XML Schema, which was beyond repair, so they both invented new regexp-based schema languages to address those problems, and combined their respective work into Relax/NG:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makoto_Murata#RELAX_and_RELAX_...
>Some people, including Murata and James Clark, had critical attitudes toward XML Schema. XML Schema is a modern XML schema language designed by W3C XML Schema Working Group. W3C intended XML Schema to supersede traditional DTD (Document Type Definition). XML Schema supports so many features that its specification is large and complex. Murata, James Clark and those who criticised XML Schema, pointed out the following:
>It is difficult to implement all features of XML Schema.
>It is difficult for engineers to read and write XML Schema definitions.
>It does not permit nondeterministic content models.
James Clark compared Relax NG to XML Schema and its predecessor, SGML Document Type Definitions, in his paper, "The Design of RELAX NG":
https://relaxng.org/jclark/design.html
James Clark has a huge amount of experience designing and implementing SGML and XML standards:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clark_(programmer)
I've written about XML Schema, Relax NG, and James Clark eariler:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26122033
>Some of the most incredibly awfully bad XML DSLs are official standards, themselves. COUGH XMLSchema COUGH: [...]
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22756875
>James Clark used Haskell to design and implement an algorithm for validating Relax NG XML schemas (he co-designed Relax NG, and designed its predecessor TREX), to work the ideas out before re-implementing it in (many many more lines of tedious brittle) Java (JING). Haskel works wonderfully as a design and standard definition language, that way. [...]
A Triumph of Simplicity: James Clark on Markup Languages and XML
https://www.drdobbs.com/a-triumph-of-simplicity-james-clark-...
>If you peek under the hood of high-profile open-source projects such as Mozilla, Apache, Perl, and Python, you'll find a little program called "expat" handling the XML parsing. If you've ever used the man command on your GNU/Linux distribution, then you've also used groff, the GNU version of the UNIX text formatting application, troff. If you've ever done any work with SGML, from generating documentation from DocBook to building your own SGML applications, you've undoubtedly come across sgmls, SP, and Jade.
This article "Schema Wars: XML Schema vs. Relax NG (1/2) - exploring XML" enumerates some of James Clark's objections to XML Schema:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190403171512/http://webreferen...
>James Clark, leader of the technical committee at OASIS for RELAX NG, and author of one of the first XML parsers, recently described the problems of the XML Schema language in a newsgroup posting:
>1) XML Schema definitions require considerable expertise to understand and can contain quite a few surprises.
>As an example, if you derive a complex type by restriction you have to specify the new restricted content model explicitly. However, attributes are treated in the opposite way: by default you get all the attributes and you have to explicitly rule out the ones you don't want. A similar inconsistency exists in that if you merge two attribute definitions you get the union of the concrete attribute definitions, but the intersection of attribute wildcards (specified by the anyAttribute element). While these might be convenient choices for the specification, it easily creates confusion for the human reader of XML schemas.
>2) The XML Schema Recommendation is hard to read and understand.
>To avoid the possible misinterpretations mentioned above you might have to reference the specification in order to fully understand a specific schema definition. I have to agree with Clark that the W3C's XML Schema Recommendation is by far the hardest to read and understand, making it even more difficult to make sense of a particular schema presented to you.
>3) W3C XML Schema's support for attributes provides no advance over DTDs.
>As with DTDs, W3C XML Schema only allows the specification of whether attributes are required or optional. There is no way to specify more complex constraints between attributes or between attributes or elements, for instance that either attribute X or attribute Y is allowed or that either attribute X or element Y is allowed. The mechanism that is used to constrain the co-occurrence of child elements should be extended to attributes and the combinations of attributes and child elements.
>4) W3C XML Schema provides very weak support for unordered content.
>When the designer of an XML vocabulary does not wish to force child elements to occur in a particular order, it can be impractical to describe the XML vocabulary using XML Schema, because XML Schema imposes such limitations.
>5) Datatype handling in W3C XML Schema lacks modularity.
>W3C XML Schema is tied to the single collection of datatypes defined in Part 2 of W3C XML Schema. Yet this collection of datatypes is a very ad-hoc collection. It includes datatypes of highly debatable relevance (gYearMonth, gDay etc). Yet it lacks many datatypes that are important for many applications. A modular approach where a schema language can be combined with one or more standard collections of datatypes, some general-purpose and some domain-specific, is called for here.
>6) W3C XML Schema does not define a single notion of validity of a document with respect to a schema.
>There are different varieties of validation (lax and strict) and many different ways to validate a document against a schema. From a W3C XML Schema alone, it is not possible to know what is a valid document. For instance there is no way to specify what is allowed as the root element.
>7) Magic schema attributes in documents
>W3C XML Schema provides the xsi:schemaLocation attribute, which allows an XML document instance to indicate the schema that should be used to validate the document. This creates problems with security (the destination might have changed or tampered with), interoperability (use of schemaLocation is optional) and "purity" of schema definition: There is no way to prevent the document containing magic xsi:* attributes, so the use of W3C XML Schema "infects" the grammar you are defining.
>8) Another problematic area in W3C XML Schema is the support for infoset augmentation, such as default attributes.
>Apart from being a violation of modularity, this tends to cause interoperability problems, because it leads to the possibility of the application getting different information depending on whether or not validation has been performed.
Re: JSON5 Data Interchange Format
#57> "Strings may be single quoted." What's the point? I cringe every time a project uses both double quote and single quote, a mix of semicolon and no semicolon and a mix of tabs and space, .... Which one to pick isn't relevant as soon as the code base is consistent
It allows you to put double quotes in the string without escaping them, which is pretty nice.
The most practical solution for this problem I saw was in F#. You can use tripple-quoted strings.
let a = """The diner is called "John's", but you can't let the string end with a double quote"""
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/fsharp/language-refe...Re: JSON5 Data Interchange Format
#58Re: JSON5 Data Interchange Format
#59> "Strings may be single quoted." What's the point? I cringe every time a project uses both double quote and single quote, a mix of semicolon and no semicolon and a mix of tabs and space, .... Which one to pick isn't relevant as soon as the code base is consistent
Maybe they don't think it should be up to them to decide which one you should go with.
Re: JSON5 Data Interchange Format
#60> "Strings may be single quoted." What's the point? I cringe every time a project uses both double quote and single quote, a mix of semicolon and no semicolon and a mix of tabs and space, .... Which one to pick isn't relevant as soon as the code base is consistent
Getting over your pet peeves is a superpower.