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Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#21

Post by AbrahamParangi »

BoHerfVJrEsq wrote: post #19
bedobi wrote: post #18

Is there any evidence mindfulness as taught and practiced by, well, those who teach and practice it, is good for anything ? Keep in mind (no pun intended) - if your example is someone who was already successful, and they remain successful, that's not terribly good evidence.

> Is there any evidence mindfulness as taught and practiced by, well, those who teach and practice it, is good for anything? Well, the 26 centuries of Buddhism, and all those monks and laypeople. I'm not sure if you consider all that they've said and written to be evidence , but I think you should.

This statement can be made of any long-lived practice.

(This is not a statement of disagreement, just a comment.)

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#22

Post by BoHerfVJrEsq »

vbezhenar wrote: post #20
BoHerfVJrEsq wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there any evidence mindfulness as taught and practiced by, well, those who teach and practice it, is good for anything? Well, the 26 centuries of Buddhism, and all those monks and laypeople. I'm not sure if you consider all that they've said and written to be evidence , but I think you should.

What’s so special about buddhists? What’s the evidence? Is there some scientific research demonstrating something unique about them compared to the rest of the people?

Well, suppose your best friend told you that he did some practice for a while, and gradually got rid of what he estimated to be 99% of the suffering he'd had before. What form do you think evidence of that could take? Brain scans of some kind? They have apparently been done, and they apparently really do look odd. https://www.lionsroar.com/how-meditation-changes-your-brain-...

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#23

Post by BoHerfVJrEsq »

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #21
BoHerfVJrEsq wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there any evidence mindfulness as taught and practiced by, well, those who teach and practice it, is good for anything? Well, the 26 centuries of Buddhism, and all those monks and laypeople. I'm not sure if you consider all that they've said and written to be evidence , but I think you should.

This statement can be made of any long-lived practice. (This is not a statement of disagreement, just a comment.)

Well, I think it's pretty easy to see differences between, say, Christianity and Buddhism. Do you know of any Christians who claim to have had some breakthrough in prayer after which they experienced no suffering? I don't. But it's normal for Buddhist meditators to report things like that, or to report that happiness flows to them automatically. Ecstatic experiences are sometimes reported in Christianity, but I and many other Buddhist meditators have ecstatic experiences every day. How many hundreds of thousands of people reporting things like this over 26 centuries does it take before it starts being considered evidence? Edit: don't be shy about hitting the "reply" and typing your thoughts if you disagree with something I said.

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#24

Post by flaque »

Mindfulness isn't "thinking about chopping onions while chopping onions." Mindfulness is chopping onions.

The confusion is that "developing" mindfulness means recognizing when, while chopping onions, you're instead thinking about work, or that embarrassing moment from years ago.

There are meditation practices, like "noting", that have you think or say what you're doing while you're doing it. But this is an exercise to train mindfulness, not mindfulness itself.

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#28

Post by fractallyte »

Mindfulness is an invaluable tool for victims of trauma, to ground them in the 'here and now', when they are overwhelmed by floods of uncontrollable emotions.

These emotions are the result of biological, not cognitive, processes. Mindfulness is one of several tools that help to dampen emotions as victims ('survivors') learn to 'process' traumatic memories.

The Body Keeps the Score, by Bessel van der Kolk, is the canonical work on the subject of trauma - highly recommended for anyone interested in psychology!

'Mindlessness' might have its place too. The idea of letting go, allowing the subconscious to take over... could that be an important part of healing?

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#30

Post by lugged »

flaque wrote: post #24

Mindfulness isn't "thinking about chopping onions while chopping onions." Mindfulness is chopping onions. The confusion is that "developing" mindfulness means recognizing when, while chopping onions, you're instead thinking about work, or that embarrassing moment from years ago. There are meditation practices, like "noting", that have you think or say what you're doing while you're doing it. But this is an exercise t…

You're arguing semantics.

These two things are not mutually exclusive either. You can and should practice both.

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