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Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

scientificamerican.com

11–20 of 148 posts

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#11
What is concentration? Is to have your attention totally directed to one thought. The goal of meditation is to have no thoughts, which is totally different from mindfulness, which is just attention on everything you do.

Samadhi or illumination is attained without thoughts, mostly with a help of a 'koan' like: 'we know that all things can be reduced to unity. What unity is reduced to?'

Then the mind cannot answer and will start to evade and even give illogical answers, then the mind, when tired, stops looking for answers and go quiet, and that's the goal of meditation.

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#12
post #4

One thing to be mindful of is mindfulness is a fad. It’s not a silver bullet for fixing problems.

True that it’s not a silver bullet.. I don’t really see it as a fad though. It’s been around for thousands of years. It’s probably not going anywhere.

I see his point though.

More and more I am associating mindfulness as one of many over-marketed self-help practices to cope with the stress of modern life.

This mountain of books and methods to find calm or happiness appear to me as a stigma of how insane some aspects of modern life can be. Somehow, our society create a problem and sell you a way to deal with it.

Sometimes I am even thinking it is one of the built-in mechanism helping to keep the system stable.

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#13

Concentration (sustained attention) has many stages. For example, at the lowest stage and in an unpracticed individual, one must fight to keep attention placed on an object. Someone who is well practised will either pass over that stage immediately upon beginning to concentrate or they will not be in that stage for long. As concentration sustains it becomes easier to the point that no will is required for it to remai…

Yeah I feel like equating sati with just attention or concentration like is done in so many of these studies misunderstands the teaching. Tilopa’s advice might help them understand this sort of meditative “concentration” a little more: don’t recall, don’t imagine, don’t think, don’t examine, don’t control, rest. A high level professional athlete is probably doing something along those lines in relation to their sport, so asking them to examine and control is of course going to knock them out of it. There is a reason why it’s called samma-sati.

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#14
>> Underlying this state of “automaticity” (as cognitive psychologists call it) are mental processes that can be executed without paying attention to them. These processes run off without conscious awareness—a chain reaction of mental events. We don’t perform all tasks automatically, but many can be performed this way once they are well practiced.

It is not the case that we do not pay attention to the tasks, but that we pay attention to them with different faculties than the mind. For chopping cucumbers, if we are chopping cucumbers and talking to our mother at the same time or singing a song in our head, we are utilizing our physical functions rather than mental. It is not that we do not pay attention to the chopping, but that we use our body to do the paying of attention while we use mind elsewhere.

>> this is one reason why some experts appear to “choke under pressure”: they think too much about the mechanics of the task at hand.

If you're trying to do physical tasks while also doing mental tasks at all, then you are thinking too much.

>> skilled golfers performed substantially worse when they focused on their swing

Now they are realizing they have bodies, and trying to see what they are doing, mentating while also trying to use that physical-only skill that they had developed under very different circumstances (without mentation).

One may also hear about how meditation or mindfulness 'destroyed' someone's life or 'made them crazy'. It is the case that many are unable to process the pain/unpleasantness of fully experiencing one's being in all its horrror. Truly looking at oneself can probably be achieved by more if they were to take it in small doses with plenty of mindlessness interspersed throughout their practice, rather than trying to 'drink the ocean'.

Edit: clarity/verbiage.

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#15
What happens when CEOs and Political leaders who become mindless? Can we get a score on how mindless they are based on decision-making history?

Feels like they repeat the same set of rules so many times to climb the ladder, that certain the networks in the brain have been reinforced so many times it appears as high skill in some scenarios and massive weakness in others. Just like dumb over trained neural nets.

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#18
Is there any evidence mindfulness as taught and practiced by, well, those who teach and practice it, is good for anything?

Keep in mind (no pun intended) - if your example is someone who was already successful, and they remain successful, that's not terribly good evidence.

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#19
post #18

Is there any evidence mindfulness as taught and practiced by, well, those who teach and practice it, is good for anything ? Keep in mind (no pun intended) - if your example is someone who was already successful, and they remain successful, that's not terribly good evidence.

> Is there any evidence mindfulness as taught and practiced by, well, those who teach and practice it, is good for anything?

Well, the 26 centuries of Buddhism, and all those monks and laypeople. I'm not sure if you consider all that they've said and written to be evidence, but I think you should.

Re: Sometimes mindlessness is better than mindfulness

#20
post #18

Is there any evidence mindfulness as taught and practiced by, well, those who teach and practice it, is good for anything ? Keep in mind (no pun intended) - if your example is someone who was already successful, and they remain successful, that's not terribly good evidence.

> Is there any evidence mindfulness as taught and practiced by, well, those who teach and practice it, is good for anything? Well, the 26 centuries of Buddhism, and all those monks and laypeople. I'm not sure if you consider all that they've said and written to be evidence , but I think you should.

What’s so special about buddhists? What’s the evidence? Is there some scientific research demonstrating something unique about them compared to the rest of the people?
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