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Stanislav Petrov, Officer Who Helped Avert Nuclear War on Sept. 26, 1983 (2017)

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Re: Stanislav Petrov, Officer Who Helped Avert Nuclear War on Sept. 26, 1983 (2017)

#11

Post by retsibsi »

beebmam wrote: post #4

Seems like the world had close to another moment like this with Milley/Li over the recent presidential transition in the US. Is it going to require the use of nuclear weapons on a global scale before humans decide to abolish them? I think it's just a matter of time before politicians with a wish for mass death finally bring it to us.

> Milley/Li over the recent presidential transition in the US

I'd genuinely like more info if I'm wrong about this, but wasn't that basically a case of one important person worrying about what Trump might do?

Trump is among the last people I would be / was comfortable to have wielding massive destructive power. But 'dangerous person was in charge, causing concern he might do something catastrophic' is not really comparable to 'nuclear war only averted by relatively low-ranking individual holding back from following protocol'.

Re: Stanislav Petrov, Officer Who Helped Avert Nuclear War on Sept. 26, 1983 (2017)

#13

Post by z3ncyberpunk »

retsibsi wrote: post #11
beebmam wrote: post #4

Seems like the world had close to another moment like this with Milley/Li over the recent presidential transition in the US. Is it going to require the use of nuclear weapons on a global scale before humans decide to abolish them? I think it's just a matter of time before politicians with a wish for mass death finally bring it to us.

> Milley/Li over the recent presidential transition in the US I'd genuinely like more info if I'm wrong about this, but wasn't that basically a case of one important person worrying about what Trump might do? Trump is among the last people I would be / was comfortable to have wielding massive destructive power. But 'dangerous person was in charge, causing concern he might do something catastrophic' is not really comp…

It was basically treason, since you want to overly simplify

Re: Stanislav Petrov, Officer Who Helped Avert Nuclear War on Sept. 26, 1983 (2017)

#14

Post by z3ncyberpunk »

eganist wrote: post #6
garmaine wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation would be comparable is Trump actually ordered a nuclear assault, but he did not.

I mean, if we're going to go down that rabbit hole, we should call out the fact that the guy literally restrained the USCP from suppressing an insurrection while deploying lawyers to find ways to overturn a legally operated election, all while throwing his own vice president to the insurrectionists for his refusal to take part. Seems anyone trying to establish the stability of US democracy through backchannels was do…

Biggest risk since the civil war.... You say that with the clown sitting at the helm now? You literally voted in a dementia ridden, child sniffing pedophile who is but a mere puppet. So thanks, you actually made worse than having Trump because now we have an even less clear picture of those in power. Your liberal bias is showing..

Re: Stanislav Petrov, Officer Who Helped Avert Nuclear War on Sept. 26, 1983 (2017)

#15

Post by On918OTFLz »

retsibsi wrote: post #11
beebmam wrote: post #4

Seems like the world had close to another moment like this with Milley/Li over the recent presidential transition in the US. Is it going to require the use of nuclear weapons on a global scale before humans decide to abolish them? I think it's just a matter of time before politicians with a wish for mass death finally bring it to us.

> Milley/Li over the recent presidential transition in the US I'd genuinely like more info if I'm wrong about this, but wasn't that basically a case of one important person worrying about what Trump might do? Trump is among the last people I would be / was comfortable to have wielding massive destructive power. But 'dangerous person was in charge, causing concern he might do something catastrophic' is not really comp…

True. But the point stands about why humans don't abolish them considering its one of the biggest threat to all humans.

Reminds me of this, funny but makes you think :) - https://xkcd.com/1626/

Re: Stanislav Petrov, Officer Who Helped Avert Nuclear War on Sept. 26, 1983 (2017)

#16

Post by retsibsi »

On918OTFLz wrote: post #15
retsibsi wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Milley/Li over the recent presidential transition in the US I'd genuinely like more info if I'm wrong about this, but wasn't that basically a case of one important person worrying about what Trump might do? Trump is among the last people I would be / was comfortable to have wielding massive destructive power. But 'dangerous person was in charge, causing concern he might do something catastrophic' is not really comp…

True. But the point stands about why humans don't abolish them considering its one of the biggest threat to all humans. Reminds me of this, funny but makes you think :) - https://xkcd.com/1626/

Oh I'm not at all comfortable about the status quo. (And I don't know why you apparently got insta-downvoted.) But I'm not sure how abolition is supposed to happen. I'm no expert, but it seems like the level of mutual surveillance required for a credible worldwide commitment to complete nuclear disarmament would be very difficult to achieve.

Re: Stanislav Petrov, Officer Who Helped Avert Nuclear War on Sept. 26, 1983 (2017)

#17

Post by hodgesrm »

beebmam wrote: post #4

Seems like the world had close to another moment like this with Milley/Li over the recent presidential transition in the US. Is it going to require the use of nuclear weapons on a global scale before humans decide to abolish them? I think it's just a matter of time before politicians with a wish for mass death finally bring it to us.

> Seems like the world had close to another moment like this with Milley/Li over the recent presidential transition in the US.

No. There's no evidence there was any escalation or confrontation with China. It's at most like the situation with Nixon in 1974, though there's no evidence that Trump ever thought of using them. [0]

I do think the problem people tend to underestimate is that American control of nuclear weapons may in future be less stable due to political strife. That is doubtless a troubling idea for some of our potential adversaries.

[0] https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/11/donald-tr...

Re: Stanislav Petrov, Officer Who Helped Avert Nuclear War on Sept. 26, 1983 (2017)

#18

Post by hodgesrm »

BenPace wrote: post #3
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #2

I'd be remiss if I didn't offer belated condolences for my namesake.

You might be interested to know how we're honoring him today in the rationality and effective altruism communities. We've set up big red buttons on each site that 100 core users of each site can use to 'nuke' the other site. If 1 of those 100 users enters their launch codes, the other site goes down. https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/EW8yZYcu3Kff2qShS/petrov-day...

You might add Leonard Peroots to that list of honorees. I worked for him. I didn't meet Petrov but they seemed to have had a similar ability to sort through the fog. These are the people you want serving in the military. [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_H._Perroots

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