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Noam Chomsky on the cruelty of American imperialism
71–80 of 106 posts
Re: Noam Chomsky on the cruelty of American imperialism
#72The thing about America is that if you don't like it, you can move to the US and promote political ideas to change what you don't like.
It doesn't always succeed, but it's non-violent and it works.
It's why so many people move to America.
Re: Noam Chomsky on the cruelty of American imperialism
#73the article on YNews three spots away is a detailed and lengthy exposition on outsourcing of American software work to various countries. There is no hint of any of these sentiments expressed by Chomsky. It is almost as if Chomsky is expressing a certain facet of conscience that is utterly lacking in the other side of that coin. And coin it is, that is the subject, money, work, and all that goes with it. weird
Can you be a bit more specific? This article? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28663221
Can you explain the two sides of the coin and the connection?
Re: Noam Chomsky on the cruelty of American imperialism
#74The thing about America is that if you don't like it, you can move to the US and promote political ideas to change what you don't like. It doesn't always succeed, but it's non-violent and it works. It's why so many people move to America.
Through the visa lottery system?
Re: Noam Chomsky on the cruelty of American imperialism
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
Admittedly, I'm not someone who is very knowledgeable on the subject, but that is not what I got from the article at all. My read on it was that the US needs to be more diplomatic instead of forceful, and try to reach some sensible cooperation with China. That doesn't strike me as doing nothing? Also, as a non American, the "we're not special" narrative does resonate with me. American rhetoric is so often full of imp…
> My read on it was that the US needs to be more diplomatic instead of forceful, and try to reach some sensible cooperation with China. Cooperation is useful when both actors are acting in good faith, and where both actors want something that is acceptable or tolerable to the other side. What are the motivations and goals of the CCP? Are they tolerable to the US (and the rest of the world)? Should there be accommodat…
His main examples of things that will take cooperation were climate change and nuclear proliferation.
Re: Noam Chomsky on the cruelty of American imperialism
#76Just finished reading 'Blind Man's Bluff' - about the American submarine espionage stories since WW2. There are fascinating stories but it was also striking how so many of the stories were about how the US, the technically and economically superior country, spied on and harassed the Soviets near the Soviet territories.
I read somewhere that it's not entirely unlikely that the brand of socialism/communism in the Soviet Union became more extreme because of foreign attack. Socialism was considered, probably rightly so, a mortal threat to current political and social systems so the communist camp in Russia was under assault from day 1. For those that forgot, Russia was an ally in WW1 and once it withdrew from the war due to huge war fa…
Let us please dispense with the moral ambiguity of our view of the Soviet Union.
They was also an 'ally' in WW2, I think 'enemy of my enemy' would be a more apt term.
The Soviets were an authoritarian mass murdering regime (Stalin murdered 4-5 million on purpose in Ukraine, but that's just one small item on the list) that already ruthlessly ruled much of Central Asia, and the only reason the Czechs, E. Germans, Poles, Romanians, Hungarians etc. were in the 'Warsaw Pact' was due to forcible acquiescence at the point of a gun: those states were nation-sized prisons, forcibly monitored by Stasi or Stasi-like forces, who were in turn monitored by the KGB, in very draconian terms.
Meanwhile, NATO was made up of very willing participants.
After the fall of the Soviet Union, we can see where those states more or less landed in terms of alignment.
The Soviets were all over the world trying to take control of individual government groups, providing money, intelligence, weapons etc. in order to take direct control of government, and have them controlled in much the same manner they did Poland, Hungary etc.. and where they were successfull it was bad.
The American model exemplified by US support of House of Saud is excessively benign: don't attack the US or the world order, don't align with the Soviets or China, sell your goods to whoever you want but at free market prices, maintain stable governance ... and that's that. In Chile, Afghanistan, Cuba, Venezuela, problems 'came to ahead' due to very direct influence of the Soviets and we're still reeling from it to this day.
Not to overstate things entirely, but during the Wiemar Republic, Stalin had complete and direct control over the German Communist party, who had ~17% of the Bundestag, and they had their own 'thug forces' out there beating people up, killing police (on a couple of occasions). Needless to say, could you imagine some antagonizing foreign dictatorship directly controlling 17% of UK Parliament or US Congress? I wouldn't say that was a primary cause of anything, but at least pretty big driver of what followed.
Re: Noam Chomsky on the cruelty of American imperialism
#77I respect Chomsky very much, and I have learned a lot from him. But I do wonder to what extent his views are based on a possibly over-optimistic view of the world's potential, and a refusal or inability to accept that the the universe might be fundamentally unjust and that life is not always dignified or sacred. I would like to share his hopeful outlook (hopeful in the sense that he seems to think there ought to be a…
I think I agree with Chomsky that humans can create a much less hierarchical society. Most of what he advocates for (reducing American imperialism) is a pragmatic step towards giving people in the countries of the world more direct control over their lives. Would you say this is not possible? I don't think there's going to be a global revolution, but I do think we should strive to question hierarchy and increase human freedom wherever possible. I don't think we'll ever have a perfect society, but I do think we can create a much better society. Just look at all the progress made in the last decades.
Re: Noam Chomsky on the cruelty of American imperialism
#78I respect Chomsky very much, and I have learned a lot from him. But I do wonder to what extent his views are based on a possibly over-optimistic view of the world's potential, and a refusal or inability to accept that the the universe might be fundamentally unjust and that life is not always dignified or sacred. I would like to share his hopeful outlook (hopeful in the sense that he seems to think there ought to be a…
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Re: Noam Chomsky on the cruelty of American imperialism
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Authoritarian tendencies existed well before the US came to power. The best defence against the US 'empire' is to avoid authoritarian tendencies.
Tell that to Mohammad Mosaddegh, the democratically-elected Prime Minister of Iran until some hostile action by the CIA. Or, consider Saudi Arabia, which has a monarchy. They are on very friendly terms with the US. I've just listed two examples out of many that can be easily found by anyone who is interested to know.
Please do, you have a single example of Iran and another that is the complete opposite of what I proposed. Then compare that to the powers US has had conflicts with during the 20/21st century, either directly or by proxy.
The point was also 'best defence', not 'option that completely negates any possible US threat'.
On odds, what country will most likely come into conflict with the US on probability, one of authoritarian rule or one of elected leaders?