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Congratulations, Mini, you made the stupidest turn signals ever

jalopnik.com

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Re: Congratulations, Mini, you made the stupidest turn signals ever

#201

Post by rconti »

ycombinete wrote: post #184
rconti wrote: post #177

I'm a taillight enthusiast, but, I must say, it never even occurred to me that these look like an arrow, even after watching the gif. It's much less awful than the Mini Clubman, which, like so many new vehicles, have decided to install brake lights and signals IN THE BUMPER. My understanding is there's an EU (?) regulation that taillights must be visible when the trunk/hatch is open; eg, for roadside emergencies wher…

What goes into being a tail light enthusiast? I can’t wrap my head around this concept. He used the term Blinkie in the article but I thought it was a joke. Are you a blinkie?

I have strong opinions on their function, and have spent not-insignificant money to buy/install/modify various 'correct' functionality, eg, buying lamps and switches from Europe and modifying wiring to make the 'correct' functions work (amber turn signals, rear fog lights).

I'm pretty sure Blinkie is facetious.

Re: Congratulations, Mini, you made the stupidest turn signals ever

#202

Post by pomian »

Looking at the images from article It's obvious. They put the led's, into the lenses, on the wrong side. Someone had a great idea, with the arrows. But by the time it got into production, the insides were reversed. Maybe a drawing was mirror imaged, maybe the layout at the factory was upside down? D6one simple little thing.

Re: Congratulations, Mini, you made the stupidest turn signals ever

#203

Post by speedgoose »

flyingfences wrote: post #38
Bud wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MINI is actually not a BMW, although it is true that it is made by BMW. Nor are MINI drivers really very much like BMW drivers, in fact I'd say that overall as a population, they are quite different. (I had a MINI from 2002-2020. Put about 300k miles on it.)

MY2013+ Minis are built on the BMW ULK1 platform.

The electric Mini (Mini Cooper SE) is very much a worse but cheaper BMW i3 too.

Re: Congratulations, Mini, you made the stupidest turn signals ever

#204

Post by [deleted] »

pomian wrote: post #202

Looking at the images from article It's obvious. They put the led's, into the lenses, on the wrong side. Someone had a great idea, with the arrows. But by the time it got into production, the insides were reversed. Maybe a drawing was mirror imaged, maybe the layout at the factory was upside down? D6one simple little thing.

[deleted]

Re: Congratulations, Mini, you made the stupidest turn signals ever

#205

Post by wirthjason »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #199
mthoms wrote: post #181

Mini’s statement only highlights the absurdity (emphasis mine): >With regard to the turn indicator light pattern, there should be no trouble at all for a driver to understand, when seeing the full rear of the car , which direction is being indicated So what about when you can only see half of the car? Like when it’s changing lanes or pulling out of a parking spot? You know, like those times when a signal is MOST usef…

Or at night, in the dark, unlit two-lane roads of most of Europe?

At night both tail lamps are lit.

Re: Congratulations, Mini, you made the stupidest turn signals ever

#206

Post by masklinn »

rconti wrote: post #177

I'm a taillight enthusiast, but, I must say, it never even occurred to me that these look like an arrow, even after watching the gif. It's much less awful than the Mini Clubman, which, like so many new vehicles, have decided to install brake lights and signals IN THE BUMPER. My understanding is there's an EU (?) regulation that taillights must be visible when the trunk/hatch is open; eg, for roadside emergencies wher…

> It's much less awful than the Mini Clubman, which, like so many new vehicles, have decided to install brake lights and signals IN THE BUMPER. My understanding is there's an EU (?) regulation that taillights must be visible when the trunk/hatch is open; eg, for roadside emergencies where you are broken down but are getting things out of the back, your lights must still be visible.

There's a US reg on the subject: lamps on non-fixed parts of vehicles are considered auxiliary, so any of them must be duplicated on a fixed part of the vehicle.

I don't know about EU regs on the subject, I can't remember seeing lights on the bumper aside from rear fogs.

edit: I think it's allowed in the EU as long as the lights are visible as expected, and interestingly brake lights are not covered, however the bumper workaround is also permitted, per Regulation No 48 § 5.18 (https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...)

5.18. Rear position lamps, rear direction-indicators and rear retro-reflectors, triangular as well as non-triangular, may be installed on movable components only:

5.18.1. If at all fixed positions of the movable components the lamps on the movable components meet all the position, geometric visibility and photometric requirements for those lamps.

5.18.2. In the case where the functions referred to in paragraph 5.18 are obtained by an assembly of two lamps marked ‘D’ (see paragraph 2.16.1), only one of the lamps needs to meet the position, geometric visibility and photometric requirements for those lamps at all fixed positions of the movable components; or

5.18.3. Where additional lamps for the above functions are fitted and are activated, when the movable component is in any fixed open position, provided that these additional lamps satisfy all the position, geometric visibility and photometric requirements applicable to the lamps installed on the movable component.

5.18.4. In the case where the functions referred to in paragraph 5.18 are obtained by an interdependent lamp system either of the following conditions shall apply:

(a) should the complete interdependent lamp system be mounted on the moving component(s), the requirements of paragraph 5.18.1 shall be satisfied. However, additional lamps for the above functions may be activated, when the movable component is in any fixed open position, provided that these additional lamps satisfy all the position, geometric visibility and photometric requirements applicable to the lamps installed on the movable component; or

(b) should the interdependent lamp system be partly mounted on the fixed component and partly mounted on a movable component, the interdependent lamp(s) specified by the Applicant during the device approval procedure shall meet all the position, outwards geometric visibility and photometric requirements for those lamps, at all fixed positions of the movable component(s). The inwards geometric visibility requirement(s) is(are) deemed to be satisfied if this(these) interdependent lamp(s) still conform(s) to the photometric values prescribed in the field of light distribution for the approval of the device, at all fixed positions of the movable component(s).

Re: Congratulations, Mini, you made the stupidest turn signals ever

#207

Post by rconti »

ThePadawan wrote: post #185
rconti wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The salesperson doesn't care, and the dealership sells whatever the manufacturer ships to them. The Mini dealer isn't about to start stocking Kias instead of Minis.

That's my question though. If anyone at Mini sees their 2019 model sold N in the first 6 months, and their 2021 model sold N/2, does anyone at corporate ask the dealerships to explain? I hope someone would care. What if 90% of potential buyers jumped off when they saw the mileage numbers. Or after the test drive. Or when they heard how long delivery would take. You know, any process optimization whatsoever.

I'm sure they do, but as a car enthusiast, we're forever frustrated, because the number of people who care is simply miniscule.

I always bought used cars and it's frustrating that, of course, the manufacturers/dealers only care about people buying new.

But now, having bought a new car, I realize they STILL don't care about my opinion, because people who care about the car-like-appliances they buy are in such a minority.

Car dealerships have scads of people lining up to throw money at them for the privilege of having a new car. Look at how various non-enthusiast vehicles become trendy and command huge markups -- eg, the Kia Telluride became the "it" child taxi a few years ago (replacing the Honda CRV) and every self-respecting parent simply HAD to pay thousands over sticker to have the latest status symbol.

Go try to buy a new car and the sales people simply don't seem to care about you wanting a difficult to find color combination from another dealer. They could source one if they wanted to, but they don't. They're catering to the masses who are simply to be allowed to buy a car sitting on the lot. They want to make as much money as possible from each sale; getting a marginal sale to someone who actually cares which option package or color they get simply isn't worth it. There are too few of "us" and too many of "them".

In the US, it's incredibly rare to people actually order a car from the factory the way they want it, because nobody is willing to wait. The buyer accepts that they 'have to' buy whatever is on the lot that day. With most cars, you have very few options you can even select from anyway; they're all bundled in packages of stuff you may or may not care about. To be fair, this is an industry-wide trend; having fewer SKUs, in retail parlance, makes a ton of sense. But I think it's particularly bad in the US.

Re: Congratulations, Mini, you made the stupidest turn signals ever

#208

Post by masklinn »

ycombinete wrote: post #184
rconti wrote: post #177

I'm a taillight enthusiast, but, I must say, it never even occurred to me that these look like an arrow, even after watching the gif. It's much less awful than the Mini Clubman, which, like so many new vehicles, have decided to install brake lights and signals IN THE BUMPER. My understanding is there's an EU (?) regulation that taillights must be visible when the trunk/hatch is open; eg, for roadside emergencies wher…

What goes into being a tail light enthusiast? I can’t wrap my head around this concept. He used the term Blinkie in the article but I thought it was a joke. Are you a blinkie?

> What goes into being a tail light enthusiast?

Watching the Technology Connections video on the subject is probably a good start.

Re: Congratulations, Mini, you made the stupidest turn signals ever

#209

Post by masklinn »

asveikau wrote: post #191
rconti wrote: post #177

I'm a taillight enthusiast, but, I must say, it never even occurred to me that these look like an arrow, even after watching the gif. It's much less awful than the Mini Clubman, which, like so many new vehicles, have decided to install brake lights and signals IN THE BUMPER. My understanding is there's an EU (?) regulation that taillights must be visible when the trunk/hatch is open; eg, for roadside emergencies wher…

> Also, my standard rant, ban red turn signals. They should always and forever be amber, I seem to recall reading amber turn signals are required the EU but not US.

> I seem to recall reading amber turn signals are required the EU but not US.

Yes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1lZ9n2bxWA).

The US allows not only red turn signals, but implementing turn signals by flashing brake lights.

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