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Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

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Re: Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

#91

Post by ch4s3 »

sillystuff wrote: post #66
busterarm wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and most of the War on Drugs... He might just be the most loathsome human being we've ever elected President. Although McCain would have been worse had he ever made it. In fact, Biden and McCain have always been my go-to examples of the worst that America has to offer and like cockroaches they always managed to hang on.

I also do not care for Biden, but, "the most loathsome human being we've ever elected President," is ignoring history. There isn't a single president where unpleasant facts about their actions are not documented-- there wasn't a single pure and good president of the united states-- ever, nor even one who did not engage in activities which could be described as "loathsome". Starting with George Washington who lead an…

> Starting with George Washington who lead an insurrection on behalf of rich slave owners (to protect slavery)

This is absolutely ahistorical. None of the planners of the revolution ever documented this as a motivation. Some were even abolitionists. The British Slavery Abolition Act wasn't until 1833 anyway. On top of that, Dunmore's Proclamation which offered freedom to loyalist slaves was almost 8 months after the war started, so that couldn't have been a motivation.

[edit] I don't have a stake in deciding which president was the worst or in defending Washington per se. I'm only addressing the particular historical claim which is pretty straightforwardly false, as far as I can tell.

[edit 2] I would challenge anyone downvoting this to find historical evidence to the contrary.

Re: Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

#92

Post by pixel_tracing »

jeroenhd wrote: post #25
hktntbvuvu wrote: post #5

While we are at it, is Biden going to pardon Snowden?

As an outsider, I don't expect the American government to ever pardon people like him. Presidents come and go but they all play nicely with the military powers that remain after their terms. When presidents promise to do things the rest it the government doesn't like, those promises only get broken. Trump didn't complete his wall, Obama didn't close Guantanamo Bay, and so on. Presidents aren't kings, their actions wi…

That’s short term thinking and a failure of government. Working WITH Snowden will benefit the country more than working against.

If it wasn’t Snowden it would have been someone else, matter if time.

Here’s what the gov should do:

1.) Pardon Snowden publicly 2.) Work with Snowden as public front, to build a better (more privacy conscious) surveillance network and win back the public’s trust

Will this ever happen? Probably not

Re: Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

#93

Post by boomboomsubban »

FDSGSG wrote: post #76

Very interesting to see how this will end up impacting the Assange extradition trial. Who's gonna agree to extradite him knowing that Trump was planning to assassinate him? Seems like a hard sell. E: Turns out that this isn't even news https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8041597/US-plotted-...

These are separate US based discussions about kidnapping or murdering Assange, the UC Global's actions were another one of the intelligence agencies schemes but these were separate actions.

And the article makes it sound lime the British were kept in the loop for most of it, the previous assassination allegations didn't stop extradition so I doubt these ones will.

Re: Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

#94

Post by sillystuff »

hunterb123 wrote: post #87
sillystuff wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry about the wall of text. I tried not to favor anyone's "side". As for America hating. No. Those who are uncritical of their government are doing no one any favor. E.g., if we had more people speaking up critically against US policies abroad, 911 probably would never have happened. It will be the uncritical patriots who will allow America to be lead to ruin.

I could go through each point, but let's start with Lincoln, you only took half the quote, what he said was: "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that." The rest of your propaganda falls apart just as easily. You talk like someone from the 50 ce…

I added the ellipse to indicate there was more to the quote (originally, not an edit). The remainder of the quote doesn't affect the message at all. The message is that Lincoln was not ideologically for emancipation at the beginning of the war. He was pragmatic about it. All he cared about was keeping the union intact. If he could have won the war without freeing a single slave, he would have done so-- his own words.

There is nothing false in any of what I wrote. There is one thing that is controversial since he wasn't convicted, but there is a great deal of evidence supporting Reagan selling crack cocaine to fund his illegal wars and death squads. Please go through point by point, if you allow yourself, you will learn something and possibly change your position.

edit: added, "originally not an edit" for clarity.

Re: Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

#95

Post by sonotathrowaway »

Levitz wrote: post #42
sonotathrowaway wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re unfortunately being downvoted because you are not toeing the HN crowd line that Assange is a hero. But the plain truth is he took a TV deal (bribe) from Russian state media[0] in exchange for suppressing whistleblowers leaking Russian involvement in Syria[1], and doesn’t even bother to deny that he’s been coopted by Putin[2] when confronted. He is very motivated to leak as much damaging information he can on A…

I'm ready and willing to accept that Assange is by no means unbiased, thing is, I don't really care. I know that Russia has enormous corruption, as a matter of fact I don't even try to understand the degree and inner workings of said corruption and I very much doubt that it being public would really improve anything, that is, sadly, par for the course regarding Russia. I care that when confronted with some ugly truth…

So your opinion is it’s sometimes necessary to suppress much uglier truths in order to expose much lesser ones?

If we’re being honest though, we’d frankly acknowledge that we’re not talking about Russian corruption. In this specific case we’re talking about supporting chemical weapon attacks against civilians, but we could also talk about the brutal war crimes in Chechnya.

Assange sees himself as at war with America and accepts Putin as his necessary patron to continue it. I just find it weird that other Americans (typically on the fringe left and right) try to tell me I need to view America as my enemy and Putin as my friend, and agree that we need to help censor truths about his rule in order to further his cause.

Personally, I’m disgusted by people who see a dictator who regularly murders his opponents, bombs his own cities, supports chemical weapon attacks against civilians, and think “he’s on my side”, then try to defend censoring the truths of his actions under the guise of “well we hate the same people”.

Re: Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

#96

Post by elpin »

pydry wrote: post #86
elpin wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"On July 6, 2016, WikiLeaks again contacted Guccifer 2.0 through Twitter’s private messaging function, writing, “if you have anything hillary related we want it in the next tweo [sic] days prefable [sic] because the DNC is approaching and she will solidify bernie supporters behind her after.” The Guccifer 2.0 persona responded, “ok . . . i see.” WikiLeaks also explained, “we think trump has only a 25% chance of winni…

This suggests they wanted Bernie to win. In any case, hitting up sources for leaks is, well, journalism.

It shows they wanted to prevent Hillary from building supporters to hurt her campaign and were explicitly strategizing how to achieve that end:

"if you have anything hillary related we want it in the next tweo [sic] days prefable [sic] because the DNC is approaching and she will solidify bernie supporters"

They explain their interest in a Bernie angle as a result of Trump, in their minds, having a low probability of winning:

"we think trump has only a 25% chance of winning against hillary . . . so conflict between bernie and hillary is interesting"

Re: Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

#97

Post by nivenkos »

bserge wrote: post #81
ben_w wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a long way from understanding international law, but I thought one of the principles of Westphalian sovereignty was that the highest power of a nation was its own government and never a different government? It might not be illegal under US law, but London isn’t in the USA.

Say it's illegal. "What are you gonna do about it?"

The Mossad approach.

Re: Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

#98

Post by okamiueru »

christophilus wrote: post #12
willcipriano wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honorable people do the right thing even when they personally do not benefit.

Then the answer is no. It’s almost a tautology that career politicians are not honorable.

I know of a couple of very good examples in us politics.

Re: Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

#99

Post by TheTester »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #90

I don't see how anybody could read this and then pretend that Assange has any chance of a fair trial in America. Not only were his communication constantly monitored for years, already a breach of client attorney privilege, the US considered flagrant assassination as a potential way to handle him. I've heard many people say that Assange committed actual crimes and it's time for him to face the consequences of those a…

[dead]

Re: Former U.S. officials describe details of the CIA’s proposals to abduct Assange

#100

Post by viktorcode »

dehrmann wrote: post #82

> As an American citizen, I find it absolutely outrageous that our government would be contemplating kidnapping or assassinating somebody without any judicial process... I clipped it at an unfair point, but remember Anwar al-Awlaki? Obama ordered the execution of a US citizen in a foreign country without trial.

If I'm not mistaken this is allowed by the US law.
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