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Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

theintercept.com

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Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#471

Post by avianlyric »

sumedh wrote: post #469
avianlyric wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China hasn’t tried to hide the evidence that COVID stated there. But to “hold China accountable” implicitly makes the assumption that they did something wrong and should be punished. There’s a number of perfectly reasonable ways for COVID to start without China doing anything, and making accusations based on thin evidence is not going to encourage collaboration.

> China hasn’t tried to hide the evidence that COVID stated there. That is not true, China claims Covid started in the US. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58273322 > making accusations based on thin evidence is not going to encourage collaboration. exactly which is why China should have been completely honest and transparent from the start. I dont understand why you keep saying there is thin evidence, we kno…

> I dont understand why you keep saying there is thin evidence, we know Covid started in China

I’ve not said that. My comment is in relation to idea that COVID was released from a lab.

> They literally murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people and yet you still defend a dictatorial regime?

I’m not interested in defending the CCP, I just take offence at the idea of the search for the origin of COVID being a witch hunt. People seem to be much more interested in vilified China, and than they are in the actual origin of COVID.

If you wanna criticise the Chinese government, then be my guest, I won’t defend them. But if you’re going to allow a dislike of China to cloud our understanding of where COVID came from then I’m going to make an objection.

We should focus on evidencing the origin of COVID, not finding reasons to further demonise China. If China have intentionally made it difficult to do that, then criticise the action, but it doesn’t change the fact we don’t have strong evidence of a lab release. Certainly the evidence is currently stronger than the evidence suggesting a natural jump.

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#472

Post by angelzen »

rndgermandude wrote: post #466
angelzen wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28649120 People have asserted in this thread that it would take 30-40 years for the closest known natural covid relative to aquire the necessary 1000 mutations and turn into covid. And yet here we are, almost 2 years since the pandemic started, with no identified natural reservoir for covid. Where is the covid source? ----- Consider https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(21)0099…

>Where is the covid source? Probably in bats or other animals prone to corona viruses. Likely some animal that naturally does not interact with humans a lot, and has significant populations in remote habitats. Basically everything that can live in difficult terrain is rather likely. Less likely, but far from impossible: it mutated over extended periods of time in some animal meat factory farm on an accelerated schedu…

We don't know. That's the point. Very strange that the science establishment is adamant that they do know, specifically they do know it was zoonotic, even if they also admit they have no scientific evidence for such statements. What is a scientist supposed do, absent scientific evidence? Seek for evidence.

OTOH, there is the furin cleavage site issue. Have your read the OA?!

> Since the genetic code of the coronavirus that caused the pandemic was first sequenced, scientists have puzzled over the “furin cleavage site.” This strange feature on the spike protein of the virus had never been seen in SARS-related betacoronaviruses, the class to which SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes the respiratory illness Covid-19, belongs.

> Richard Ebright, a molecular biologist at Rutgers University who has espoused the possibility that SARS-CoV-2 may have originated in a lab, agreed. “The relevance of this is that SARS Cov-2, the pandemic virus, is the only virus in its entire genus of SARS-related coronaviruses that contains a fully functional cleavage site at the S1, S2 junction,” said Ebright, referring to the place where two subunits of the spike protein meet. “And here is a proposal from the beginning of 2018, proposing explicitly to engineer that sequence at that position in chimeric lab-generated coronaviruses.”

* None of the known coronaviruses closely related to covid have such a feature. There is a lot of FUD in this space, which amounts to saying: Horses and seals are mammals, seals have flippers, therefore that horse with flippers you just saw has occurred naturally. Those stallions might have been quite horny.

* The OA 2018 grant proposes to perform gain of function work and create a FCS in SARS viruses at WIH. This research proposal has not been publicly disclosed by scientists that supposedly are investigating covid origin. WTF?

* The OA 2018 grant proposal mentions a database of 180 coronaviruses that are not publicly disclosed to this day. Apparently WIH stopped publishing coronavirus sequences after 2015. WTF? https://twitter.com/franciscodeasis/status/14160891976650014...

The closer relatives of covid without a FCS at the S1/S2 junction we find, the more damning for the WIH and their American friends. And perhaps we'll find the genetic ancestors of covid in the wild, and the WIH (proposed) work might have been a bizzarre coincidence. We don't know. But the stonewalling and the sneering at the public asking legitimate questions must stop.

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#474

Post by sumedh »

avianlyric wrote: post #471
sumedh wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China hasn’t tried to hide the evidence that COVID stated there. That is not true, China claims Covid started in the US. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58273322 > making accusations based on thin evidence is not going to encourage collaboration. exactly which is why China should have been completely honest and transparent from the start. I dont understand why you keep saying there is thin evidence, we kno…

> I dont understand why you keep saying there is thin evidence, we know Covid started in China I’ve not said that. My comment is in relation to idea that COVID was released from a lab. > They literally murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people and yet you still defend a dictatorial regime? I’m not interested in defending the CCP, I just take offence at the idea of the search for the origin of COVID being a wi…

> We should focus on evidencing the origin of COVID

Who is we? Is China included as well?

> I just take offence at the idea of the search for the origin of COVID being a witch hunt.

China claims Covid started in the US, where is the evidence for that?

> we don’t have strong evidence of a lab release.

Please read my comments again, I never claimed it leaked from a lab.

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#475

Post by mandmandam »

JPKab wrote: post #96
BellLabradors wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your characterisation of the evidence, except I think "Points to" is not synonymous with "smoking gun" so I don't think the criticism of the title is valid. In terms of how important this evidence is, it isn't just "a novel aspect of a viral genome", it is the aspect of the genome which is hardest to square with a natural origin. And it is an aspect that scientists involved in this research explicitly pr…

"And then what's more, they sat on the fact that they had requested funding for this research for the last 18 months, when the world has been desperately trying to find any relevant information on the virus' origins. The fact that they did not put this forward themselves in in and of itself suspect." They didn't just "sit on it". EcoHealth and Peter Daszak deliberately and aggressively attacked anyone who pointed to…

Re your anosmia, please consume this information with a pinch of salt, and deliberation:

https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/what-should-we-make-of...

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#476

Post by JPKab »

mannanj wrote: post #424
JPKab wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And then what's more, they sat on the fact that they had requested funding for this research for the last 18 months, when the world has been desperately trying to find any relevant information on the virus' origins. The fact that they did not put this forward themselves in in and of itself suspect." They didn't just "sit on it". EcoHealth and Peter Daszak deliberately and aggressively attacked anyone who pointed to…

Hey JPKab, just wanted to post that I empathize with you and I’ve experienced the same criticism. You aren’t alone, and even if it may feel the entire country hates and condemns you for questioning that not everyone is that way. I’ve found some hope among opponents with disagreeing beliefs, and I think remaining optimistic (reasonably) is an important piece of retaining the power to drive forward change in this area.…

I appreciate your comment and support. Thank you.

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#477

Post by JPKab »

mandmandam wrote: post #475
JPKab wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And then what's more, they sat on the fact that they had requested funding for this research for the last 18 months, when the world has been desperately trying to find any relevant information on the virus' origins. The fact that they did not put this forward themselves in in and of itself suspect." They didn't just "sit on it". EcoHealth and Peter Daszak deliberately and aggressively attacked anyone who pointed to…

Re your anosmia, please consume this information with a pinch of salt, and deliberation: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/what-should-we-make-of...

This is very interesting and I would love to test out the theory.

I have access to both LSD and psilocybin mushrooms and I'd be curious to see if I could alleviate my anosmia. At this point it's been 7 months and although I have some sense of smell restored there are massive parts of my spectrum that I have not recovered.

I recently accidentally drank spoiled orange juice because I couldn't tell at all that it was spoiled from the smell and even the taste.

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#478

Post by Fnoord »

novaRom wrote: post #369
phkahler wrote: post #61

Some people: >> Vincent Racaniello, a professor of microbiology and immunology at Columbia University, was adamant that the proposal did not change his opinion that the pandemic was caused by a natural spillover from animals to humans. “There are zero data to support a lab origin ‘notion,’” Racaniello wrote in an email. There seems to be zero data to support his spillover idea too. But now we have documentation of pe…

Daszak in a famous interview has said: "You can manipulate coronaviruses in a lab quite easily". It was a month or two before COVID outbreak in Wuhan.

Do you have a link to a source?

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#479

Post by avianlyric »

sumedh wrote: post #474
avianlyric wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I dont understand why you keep saying there is thin evidence, we know Covid started in China I’ve not said that. My comment is in relation to idea that COVID was released from a lab. > They literally murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people and yet you still defend a dictatorial regime? I’m not interested in defending the CCP, I just take offence at the idea of the search for the origin of COVID being a wi…

> We should focus on evidencing the origin of COVID Who is we? Is China included as well? > I just take offence at the idea of the search for the origin of COVID being a witch hunt. China claims Covid started in the US, where is the evidence for that? > we don’t have strong evidence of a lab release. Please read my comments again, I never claimed it leaked from a lab.

> Please read my comments again, I never claimed it leaked from a lab.

What hell are we talking about then?

> China claims Covid started in the US, where is the evidence for that?

You bought this up not me. I personally don’t give a shit what China claims. I’ve certainly never claimed that COVID originated in US, nor supported the idea. I have no evidence, and have done no research on this claim because I think it’s completely irrelevant, why the hell do you keep putting words in mouth?

> Who is we? Is China included as well?

China can whatever the hell China wants. So no “we” does not include China, I’m only talking about us here on west. Specifically those who seemed to be determined to prove that China is guilty a crime greater than being the unlucky nation where COVID made the jump. Something that’s a naturally occurring event, which is expected to happen on a semi-regular basis. Indeed the lack of new novel virus in the 20th and 21st century is some what notable, especially when you consider how globalised we are as a species.

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#480

Post by kcplate »

lamontcg wrote: post #129
btilly wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The proposal that this article is about weakens your argument significantly. They were going to experiment with multiple backbones, experimenting with multiple variations of spikes, looking specifically to try novel types of furin cleavage sites. There was no public reporting of what happened with this research. We don't know what they have because WIV database was taken offline. They claimed to have searched it, but…

But at the end of the day you have zero evidence of any of that actually happened. The backbone doesn't exist, the spike doesn't exist, the effort necessary to culture that completely unknown virus in the lab isn't documented anywhere. And the grant proposal very specifically is concerned with using the WIV1 and SHC014 backbones, nothing related to SARS-CoV-2. And going from sequence to live culturable virus that you…

People without something to hide don’t go to the lengths of coverup and propaganda campaigns that we have seen here. Perhaps Covid-19 was fully natural in origin, but what appears to be fairly obvious to me is that there are certain actors within the viral research community that are doing some things that the general worldwide public would view as extraordinarily dangerous. Things that might also be considered illegal in countries that are providing funds. Things that might be viewed reasonably by the general public as a possible cause of a worldwide pandemic.

There seems to be an extraordinary amount of CYA here.

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