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China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

dailybusinessgroup.co.uk

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Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#681

Post by quantumBerry »

lottin wrote: post #663
quantumBerry wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now apply your idea to dollars, and think about who prints the dollars.

Why do I have to apply the idea to dollars? Nobody is telling me that I will become incredibly rich, without having to put any effort, work or invent anything, if I just buy dollars. Yet the same claim is made about bitcoins, and this is why we must examine whether this claim about bitcoin is true.

Read the white paper about bitcoin. Does it say anything about it being an investment, guaranteeing stability of exchanging rates to fiat, providing interest, or any appreciation? I'll be waiting for you to cite that.

There's a lot of disingenuous people out there, that for some reason believe bitcoin or other cryptos are "investments." I guess they missed that they are called crypto-CURRENCIES and not crypto-investments. And then they get upset that they are not, and go on to berate a currency for not being an investment. It's fine to be upset at any swindlers calling a zero-sum or negative-sum game like most crypto an investment, but if you actually read the white papers many cryptos make no such claims.

And there are certainty people telling you that you can get rich off dollars, just look at the FOREX trading peddlers telling you to get rich by trading fiat and leveraging fiat exchanges. I don't attack dollars for that!

And yeah, you can apply your idea to dollars, because one of the biggest way for the government to profit off of dollars is to print more out of thin air, therefore debasing the "investment" of the rest of the dollar holders. You can choose to not apply the idea to dollars, and rather bury your head in the sand if you like, that's your prerogative.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#682

Post by the_third_wave »

epgui wrote: post #679
the_third_wave wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly, that is true - it is rather hard to describe international trade in 140 characters-or-less . It can not be denied that there is a lot of truth to the statement though even if it does not describe all factors of influence: > a system where TPTB get to fudge the books as they see fit This depends on whether the media are in to the party or not but when they are this is mostly true. > impose taxes via inten…

1) Central banks aren’t regulated by the media. 2) The expansion of the money supply is not necessarily inflationary. 3) Inflation is very different from taxation: if you hold cash you’re supposed to circulate it, either by spending it or by investing it. Inflation disincentivizes cash-hoarding, and also deflated the value of any debt you might have.

1) ...but I can only assume you realise they are sensitive to political pressure which again derives from public opinion which is controlled by the media...

2) ...but it generally is just that, inflationary. The fact that there can be exceptions to the rule does not make the rule less valid.

3) ...and inflation is also used by governments to provide funds (by "printing money" in some way or other, the actual implementation depends on how the currency is regulated) which otherwise would be provided through taxation, leading to inflation and as such reducing tax payer's purchasing power - just like taxation does.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#683

Post by powerapple »

noneeeed wrote: post #3

I've been wondering if/when China would start tightening their rules. However I'm not entirely clear from the article exactly what the status of crypto in china now is. It's not clear to me from the quoted statement if it is actually illegal to use crypto to pay for something or to hold or transfer it, or if it's something a bit more subtle and limited.

bitcoin in China is mainly for speculation and money laundering. It is illegal for business to take bitcoins and operate exchanges. I don't think holding it or transferring it would be a problem, that's the base of bitcoin's decentralization.

There are A LOT scams going on with all coins, people put money into it without knowing anything about cryptocurrency. If you read recent news about Evergrande, when Chinese people invest money for speculation, no one is considering the risk of losing money. I wonder if this has something to do with this.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#684

Post by powerapple »

futureshock wrote: post #594
powerapple wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop spreading "opinions" please. a whole population means basically you have inflated the inflated 1 millions to 7 or 8 millions people. Use your brain.

You're trying to say that because the Chinese Government has only detained an estimated million+ Uyghurs, it's completely fine because it wasn't literally all of them? You must realize that these flimsy efforts to defend the Chinese Government only makes it more obvious that the government is increasingly detached from the reality the rest of the world lives in, to the point where it says 2+2=5 and without irony beli…

No, I am not. I am trying to say, stop making unreasonable accusations, regardless your motive. Media already publish only sensational headlines, at least, we, normal people, can behave better than them.

Because you believe you are righteous does not mean you can spread false information you can easily question with your brain, the same as you believe you are righteous does not mean you can go into other country for WMD.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#685

Post by lottin »

quantumBerry wrote: post #681
lottin wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do I have to apply the idea to dollars? Nobody is telling me that I will become incredibly rich, without having to put any effort, work or invent anything, if I just buy dollars. Yet the same claim is made about bitcoins, and this is why we must examine whether this claim about bitcoin is true.

Read the white paper about bitcoin. Does it say anything about it being an investment, guaranteeing stability of exchanging rates to fiat, providing interest, or any appreciation? I'll be waiting for you to cite that. There's a lot of disingenuous people out there, that for some reason believe bitcoin or other cryptos are "investments." I guess they missed that they are called crypto-CURRENCIES and not crypto-investm…

Again, there are no dollar influencers, with millions of followers, urging people to mortgage their homes to buy more dollars. That's because everybody knows you can't get rich by buying dollars, because dollars are not an investment. And something that isn't an investment can't be a pyramid scheme, because a pyramid scheme is a type of investment scheme. Therefore we must dismiss the idea that the dollar is a pyramid scheme. Bitcoin on the other hand is a pyramid scheme wrapped in a cult.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#686

Post by avianlyric »

quantumBerry wrote: post #673
avianlyric wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crypto can be spendable cash. You can buy a coffee or a bar of gold with it, even bullets. Sounds like it can be used as a currency to me. It only takes a willing counterparty. All true, but the same also applies to chickens, screwdrivers, oranges, dogs, cats etc. Just because you can barter with something doesn’t make it a currency. Currencies are better identified by their fungibility (which crypto has), their va…

>Ad hominem attacks undermine your arguments and suggest that you don’t actually have very strong argument, instead you’re forced to attack the character of the person your discussing with, due to an inability to attack their argument. Try harder. I did attack your arguments, including many other points and I never called you a loser. Quit being so defensive. I said those who continually look for ways to make somethi…

> The only of the two of us who had made an ad hominem against the other is you, by saying I have an "inability to attack their (your) argument." Thanks hypocrite!

Re-read my comment, that’s not what I said. It’s difficult to have a discussion with someone who selectively quotes text, and deliberately ignores the wider context.

> I'm not a fan of stable coins, but how many people you reckon are buying DAI or USDT with the idea of striking it rich?

One of the original stated goals of USDT was to provide an on-ramp to other crypto, and do an end run around KYC and AML laws. People don’t buy these coins to get rich, they buy them to either purchase other coins, or to temporarily insulate themselves from crypto volatility, without having to resort to fiat. Additionally the fundamentals to USDT have been called in to question may times, with plenty of evidence that whole things scam and someone’s stolen the backing fiat.

> Try being a neutral pragmatist that doesn't believe crypto is an investment utility but rather one possible financial engine that allows electronic transactions without KYC or centralized authority.

I’m not sure how you’ve ended up deciding that you think I treat crypto as an investment, not a currency, after I’ve explicitly said the opposite.

As I said I believed that crypto could be a very interesting and useful currency, unfortunately it’s not panned out that way. Saying we should treat crypto like a currency when it doesn’t behave like one, and when most people don’t treat it like one, is hardly pragmatic. A more pragmatic approach is to observe how others are using it, observe how it behaves, and treat it like that. If it looks like an value gaining asset, and people treat it like a value gaining asset, then it’s a value gaining asset. Not a currency.

To cover your eyes and ignore the reality of the situation is just foolish. It certainly does nothing to advance the cause of crypto being a currency.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#687

Post by bmitc »

whoisjohnkid wrote: post #176
bmitc wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> energy consumption is beyond acceptable Do you have any resources or studies to describe this more? I have really struggled to find actually nuanced discussions and unbiased sources for this. It’s all at the extremes of it’s either the worst thing ever to not a problem at all. I’d also be interested in comparisons to energy usage of say servers that run Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, etc.

A lot of the energy consumption argument against bitcoin stems from this study [1]. Some have pointed out flaws in the study that over inflate the consumption numbers. This has sparked various indexes that have tried to measure the consumption in an unbiased way [2]. Additional studies [3] have shown that 39% of bitcoin miners are using renewables. The energy consumption argument has led some to investigate the energ…

Thank you for the references!

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#688

Post by bmitc »

thinkmassive wrote: post #137
bmitc wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> energy consumption is beyond acceptable Do you have any resources or studies to describe this more? I have really struggled to find actually nuanced discussions and unbiased sources for this. It’s all at the extremes of it’s either the worst thing ever to not a problem at all. I’d also be interested in comparisons to energy usage of say servers that run Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, etc.

Not supporting the parent’s opinion, but here’s a well researched report on the topic: https://nydig.com/bitcoin-net-zero/

Thank you for the reference!

Interestingly enough, I had received an ad for this on my LinkedIn or Instagram before I ever clicked your link.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#689

Post by floatboth »

noxer wrote: post #197
floatboth wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly do you incentivize anyone ever to abandon PoW coins rather than just adding non-PoW on the side? How exactly do you think you could dethrone Bitcoin, overcoming its gigantic first-mover advantage? I believe BTC could only come down with the rest of that "economy".

Education and time. There is a limited number of people who can not see that PoW does not work long term and more importantly that we have working alternatives like FBA consensus. Once all (most) of these people bough BTC it can only go down hill long term because people who actually want to use it will move away as its simply to expensive. Side-chains dont solve the problem no matter how many and how performant they…

Looks like FBA is not "trustless", which is actually excellent, but I'm not sure how that would fly in the current (criminal and fraudulent) cryptocurrency economy.
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