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What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

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Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#101

Post by maest »

CardenB wrote: post #63
lelanthran wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cherry picking only the accurate prediction makes it seem like the predictor is really good! Look at the rest of that quote: > The human, computer pair, will also interactively suggest, confirm and fine tune specifications of mathematical properties and invariants at points in the the program. That hasn't happened and as far as I am aware, is not even close. > This will help the computer assistant to not only better…

Can you explain how this is worse than random chance?

They're just using a flat prior, which is maybe inappropriate.

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#102

Post by maest »

pps wrote: post #94
Areading314 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone actually use Copilot day to day? How much time does it actually save?

I do, it's helpful most of the time, mostly because it behaves like intelligent text expander, and couple of times a day I'm consciously aware how it helped me in even more "intelligent" way. There were also situations when it was distracting/confusing, but I can deal with it. I'm working as web dev, with TS, JS and PHP, and in my case there is no place for some great solutions that I wouldn't thought about myself (l…

Perhaps controversial, but maybe that's an issue with the PL - if higher level, domain specific, more powerful abstractions were baked into the language, maybe all the boilerplate would not be necessary.

Of course, getting a new language to wide spread adoption is far from trivial, but that's a separate problem.

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#103

Post by still_grokking »

qsort wrote: post #97
still_grokking wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The “ Some safe and some bold predictions” comment is almost exactly my view on how programming should evolve. (functional, reactive, going toward dependent types etc ) Interesting how in 2012 it was already so clear! Given that languages used broadly in the industry are lacking behind research 20+ years that's not a good prediction. It's just the way things are going. BTW: There's still no mainstream language with…

> Given that languages used broadly in the industry are lacking behind research 20+ years This is obviously true in abstract, but the real breakthrough happens when you make those concepts ergonomic for the working developer. The theory behind dependent types is well established, but I can't really write my next project in Idris, can I? Similarly, there was a time when C was the only sensible choice to write anything…

> > Given that languages used broadly in the industry are lacking behind research 20+ years

> This is obviously true in abstract, but the real breakthrough happens when you make those concepts ergonomic for the working developer.

That's of course correct. That's actually why we're lacking behind research by such a long distance. It's not only type-systems. The "20 year lack to research" seems to be a quite general phenomena in IT. I'm not judging. It's an observation.

> This has arguably already happened, we call them data scientists.

I think this is only a facet of what I had in mind. I guess it will become more ubiquitous to use some "coding related" tools in a lot of places! But it won't be for sure software engineering what those people will do. I was thinking more in the direction of e.g. MS PowerApps. Or something on the spectrum between such thing and Jupyter notebooks.

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#104

Post by throwaway383838 »

invalidname wrote: post #100
throwaway383838 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Codename One works as well as Ionic when used by the right developer. Oh I'm sure it is. Both of them are awfully terrible compared to even React Native/Flutter, let alone native.

It's also as good as Flutter. It's a matter of developer skill. Not the tool. Flutter has better default look and feel, that's about it. React native isn't a write once run anywhere tool. As a result it has a lot of different problems which imo make it way worse than all of the above.

> It's also as good as Flutter.

It's not. Last time I used it, everything was super janky, the look of app from 90s also didn't impress me.

The DX is awful, compared to neat single binary of Flutter.

> React native isn't a write once run anywhere tool. As a result it has a lot of different problems which imo make it way worse than all of the above.

I only care about result, not semantics.

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#105

Post by still_grokking »

invalidname wrote: post #100
throwaway383838 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Codename One works as well as Ionic when used by the right developer. Oh I'm sure it is. Both of them are awfully terrible compared to even React Native/Flutter, let alone native.

It's also as good as Flutter. It's a matter of developer skill. Not the tool. Flutter has better default look and feel, that's about it. React native isn't a write once run anywhere tool. As a result it has a lot of different problems which imo make it way worse than all of the above.

It's a wast of time to engage with a troll. It won't result in any curious discussion.

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#107

Post by sourceless »

lelanthran wrote: post #62
junon wrote: post #15

http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4655#comment-73772 > ... the beginnings of intelligent ... assistants in our IDEs ... specialize (sic) in ... C/C++, Java, Mobile. They will have intimate knowledge of common APIs ... trained on tens of thousands of code projects pulled from the open repositories across the web (google code, github, bitbucket,...). In addition to having 'read' more orders of magnitude more code the…

Cherry picking only the accurate prediction makes it seem like the predictor is really good! Look at the rest of that quote: > The human, computer pair, will also interactively suggest, confirm and fine tune specifications of mathematical properties and invariants at points in the the program. That hasn't happened and as far as I am aware, is not even close. > This will help the computer assistant to not only better…

I don't know, some of that is at least starting to happen with Idris 2, though not in the exact way predicted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOtKD7ml0NU (Type Driven Development with Idris 2)

Short summary of linked video: when your type system is powerful enough you can restrict the set of possible implementations to the point that the compiler can make a decent guess as to what the program should be to satisfy the type signature.

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#108

Post by bserge »

Jensson wrote: post #55
fermuch wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Writing boring chores or repetitive code is amazing. Need to handle all cases in a case in pretty much the same way but changing only one thing? Write the first one, the rest is auto coded perfectly.

Sounds like a technical debt generator. I feel for the devs who will have to clean up the legacy from this in 10 years.

Sounds like a job creator :P

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#109

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

throwaway383838 wrote: post #92
still_grokking wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you have any idea just how much there's Android/Java/Kotlin code now? Does Google care? Ever had a look at their graveyard? The rest sounds just like the usual marketing yada-yada and doesn't stand reality…

> Does Google care? Ever had a look at their graveyard? Please, Google graveyard meme here? Name at least one DEVELOPMENT project that was killed by them. Even the infamous GWT is still alive on life support. In case you're serious, it seems you don't understand or know the scale of Android project. Android is one of the most important projects of Google, it rivals Chrome and YouTube. > The rest sound just like the u…

> Name at least one DEVELOPMENT project that was killed by them.

Google code. Google code search.

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#110

Post by Sharlin »

maest wrote: post #101
CardenB wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how this is worse than random chance?

They're just using a flat prior, which is maybe inappropriate.

A flat prior over a probability space with only four possible events, but in reality there are of course many more possible events from which those four were originally picked.
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