What will programming look like in 2020? (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#81

Post by dosshell » Sun, Sep 26, 2021, 7:54 AM UTC

nsonha wrote: post #67

craftinator wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll all be using Deno, Crystal, Nim, and Zig, and lament with great nostalgia the days of Node, Ruby, Rust, and C/++.

I understand that the value proposition of Rust is better C++, Deno is better Node. Crystal's "Better Ruby" doesn't sound like much given Ruby is niche anyway. What is it for Nim and Zig?

Zig is a better C in many ways. Memory handling, error handling, security, but most importantly it can be used together with C. No need to port your code base just swap to zig and continue. Of course now you have a code base in zig and C... :/

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#82

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Sep 26, 2021, 8:14 AM UTC

still_grokking wrote: post #68

tapas73 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take on this: 1. Societal issues. Microsoft wanted Java they could control and change. C# it is then. Google is moving away from java to kotlin, because of disagreements with Oracle. 2. Wish of different trade offs. fast-to-learn vs feature-full vs ease-of-use vs configurability vs portability vs speed vs safety vs developer friendly vs user friendly vs admin friendly vs development-speed vs program corectness. 3.…

> Google is moving away from java to kotlin, because of disagreements with Oracle. Java and it's VM are OpenSource. So that argument doesn't make any sense. Also I don't think Google would, or even could, move away form one of their primary languages. Kotlin on the other hand is only a significant trend in Android development, and it will get dropped like a hot potato in favor of Dart as soon as Fuchsia arrives as An…

[deleted]

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#83

Post by pharmakom » Sun, Sep 26, 2021, 8:17 AM UTC

fermuch wrote: post #37

Areading314 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone actually use Copilot day to day? How much time does it actually save?

Writing boring chores or repetitive code is amazing. Need to handle all cases in a case in pretty much the same way but changing only one thing? Write the first one, the rest is auto coded perfectly.

Sounds like a really limited programming language if there aren’t smarter ways around this in the code.

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#84

Post by throwaway383838 » Sun, Sep 26, 2021, 8:22 AM UTC

still_grokking wrote: post #68

tapas73 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take on this: 1. Societal issues. Microsoft wanted Java they could control and change. C# it is then. Google is moving away from java to kotlin, because of disagreements with Oracle. 2. Wish of different trade offs. fast-to-learn vs feature-full vs ease-of-use vs configurability vs portability vs speed vs safety vs developer friendly vs user friendly vs admin friendly vs development-speed vs program corectness. 3.…

> Google is moving away from java to kotlin, because of disagreements with Oracle. Java and it's VM are OpenSource. So that argument doesn't make any sense. Also I don't think Google would, or even could, move away form one of their primary languages. Kotlin on the other hand is only a significant trend in Android development, and it will get dropped like a hot potato in favor of Dart as soon as Fuchsia arrives as An…

> Kotlin on the other hand is only a significant trend in Android development, and it will get dropped like a hot potato in favor of Dart as soon as Fuchsia arrives as Android successor, I guess.

Do you have any idea just how much there's Android/Java/Kotlin code now?

> Kotlin has a problem: It tries to be "the better Java", but Java is picking up (slowly) all the features.

2016 called. Wants your opinion back. Kotlin is sooo much more now than "better Java", it is a Multiplatform, efficient and pragmatic language that is just pleasant to work with, unlike even modern Java.

It has first party support for iOS, Android, desktop and JS. It has modern Multiplatform GUI framework that rivals React and Flutter.

It has countless syntactic features and built-in null safety.

Java will be forever stuck in server and niche products like Intellij.

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#85

Post by junon » Sun, Sep 26, 2021, 8:23 AM UTC

lasc4r wrote: post #52

junon wrote: post #15

http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4655#comment-73772 > ... the beginnings of intelligent ... assistants in our IDEs ... specialize (sic) in ... C/C++, Java, Mobile. They will have intimate knowledge of common APIs ... trained on tens of thousands of code projects pulled from the open repositories across the web (google code, github, bitbucket,...). In addition to having 'read' more orders of magnitude more code the…

FYI, specialize is the American spelling.

Yep, I'm an American. It was missing the 'D' on the end ("specialized") hence the (sic).

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#86

Post by byteface » Sun, Sep 26, 2021, 8:25 AM UTC

junon wrote: post #15

http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4655#comment-73772 > ... the beginnings of intelligent ... assistants in our IDEs ... specialize (sic) in ... C/C++, Java, Mobile. They will have intimate knowledge of common APIs ... trained on tens of thousands of code projects pulled from the open repositories across the web (google code, github, bitbucket,...). In addition to having 'read' more orders of magnitude more code the…

Well people were making API calls to stackoverflow at the time to pull the most popular answer based code comments. There were several Sublime plugins. So this wasn't so hard to imagine.

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#87

Post by byteface » Sun, Sep 26, 2021, 8:32 AM UTC

Areading314 wrote: post #26

junon wrote: post #15

http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4655#comment-73772 > ... the beginnings of intelligent ... assistants in our IDEs ... specialize (sic) in ... C/C++, Java, Mobile. They will have intimate knowledge of common APIs ... trained on tens of thousands of code projects pulled from the open repositories across the web (google code, github, bitbucket,...). In addition to having 'read' more orders of magnitude more code the…

Does anyone actually use Copilot day to day? How much time does it actually save?

I do every day. I code 5 times faster on problems several times harder.

You also get good at 'using copilot' just like you can be 'good at googling'. So if you not already doing it. Start now.

IMO. There's literally no point coding without it. You are completely wasting your time. However it has limits. It only helps you write code. Architecture is still down to you. If it could read your whole codebase rather than just the page you are on. And if you could supply it prompts via urls. i.e. preloads it with hints from other code bases. Then it will really become something else.

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#88

Post by FridgeSeal » Sun, Sep 26, 2021, 8:40 AM UTC

still_grokking wrote: post #79

Shoetp wrote: post #73

> At a guess, people will use something with: - Strong tooling and libraries - An accessible type system - Deterministic memory behaviour - By-default strict evaluation - Commercial backing Every mainstream functional language is lacking in at least one of these areas. This user casually predicted Rust.

I wouldn't call a "mutability first" language which relies mostly on side-effects "functional".

Rust’s type system is very close to Haskell’s and takes a lot of inspiration from functional programming.

I’m not sure I’d call Rust mutable-first either. As for side-effects, I suspect the next leap in PL development will be an efficient algebraic-effects system with a good dev experience (or at least a trade-off so appealing it overcomes the necessary friction).

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#89

Post by still_grokking » Sun, Sep 26, 2021, 8:42 AM UTC

throwaway383838 wrote: post #84

still_grokking wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is moving away from java to kotlin, because of disagreements with Oracle. Java and it's VM are OpenSource. So that argument doesn't make any sense. Also I don't think Google would, or even could, move away form one of their primary languages. Kotlin on the other hand is only a significant trend in Android development, and it will get dropped like a hot potato in favor of Dart as soon as Fuchsia arrives as An…

> Kotlin on the other hand is only a significant trend in Android development, and it will get dropped like a hot potato in favor of Dart as soon as Fuchsia arrives as Android successor, I guess. Do you have any idea just how much there's Android/Java/Kotlin code now? > Kotlin has a problem: It tries to be "the better Java", but Java is picking up (slowly) all the features. 2016 called. Wants your opinion back. Kotli…

> Do you have any idea just how much there's Android/Java/Kotlin code now?

Does Google care? Ever had a look at their graveyard?

The rest sounds just like the usual marketing yada-yada and doesn't stand reality…

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#90

Post by FridgeSeal » Sun, Sep 26, 2021, 8:47 AM UTC

> how the hardware will evolve: several (4-16) heterogeneous(not all with the same performance, some with specialized function unit) CPUs

Isn’t this basically the architecture of the Apple M1 chips? They’ve got efficient cores and high-power cores.