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The Science of the Benefits of Religion

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Re: The Science of the Benefits of Religion

#181

Post by BuyMyBitcoins »

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #177
BuyMyBitcoins wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my own experience having debates and discussions in this day and age, there’s this pervasive notion that you can’t assert anything without some citation or study to prove your point. This isn’t necessarily bad, per se, but it does mean people are offloading reasoning about a problem to letting some citation’s abstract make the point for them. There is a massive replicability crisis in academia and we know that the…

How is your example specific to secular values? I'm sure there are many doctors who are religious. > there’s this pervasive notion that you can’t assert anything without some citation or study to prove your point Yes. That's to prevent people from making false assertions. I can't believe you're arguing that people shouldn't need facts to back up their statements.

I view the emphasis on the scientific method and empiricism as the legitimate means of determining truth to be a major component of secular values. And for what it’s worth it’s a really valuable mindset for most real world phenomena, but not all.

I know plenty of religious people also like the scientific method and empiricism, but probably only as much as where it won’t conflict with their beliefs. I’m sure a pious doctor would easily dismiss a paper refuting the efficacy of prayer. So to me, at least, this kind of scientific worldview is not really a feature of religious thinking, but the two can coexist up to a point.

Re: The Science of the Benefits of Religion

#182

Post by hota_mazi »

truetraveller wrote: post #115
hota_mazi wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you could say they are intolerant of all religions, but that's a stretch. The bottom line is that all displays of religion are banned in French schools, which puts everyone on an equal footing. Even religious people should see the value of that, especially if you're part of a minority religion. Schools are places where you learn, not practice religion. That's what places of worship are for.

> I guess you could say they are intolerant of all religions Yes, intolerant. But also hypocritical (see the Macron's hypocrisy of free speech). > which puts everyone on an equal footing It does not. Some religions mandate certain attire. And certain religions / atheism does not. So, it is not fair for a student to be denied practicing his/her religion, if his/her religion mandates the head scarf. While an atheist ha…

> Who is any person or government to dictate this to me?

Nobody is forcing anyone to attend public school. Send your kids to a private school if you want.

But if you want to benefit from what public schools have to offer, you have to abide by their rules. And one of them is that expression of religion is banned there.

In much the same way that a guest to your house would have to abide by your rules.

Re: The Science of the Benefits of Religion

#183

Post by rsj_hn »

truetraveller wrote: post #115
hota_mazi wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you could say they are intolerant of all religions, but that's a stretch. The bottom line is that all displays of religion are banned in French schools, which puts everyone on an equal footing. Even religious people should see the value of that, especially if you're part of a minority religion. Schools are places where you learn, not practice religion. That's what places of worship are for.

> I guess you could say they are intolerant of all religions Yes, intolerant. But also hypocritical (see the Macron's hypocrisy of free speech). > which puts everyone on an equal footing It does not. Some religions mandate certain attire. And certain religions / atheism does not. So, it is not fair for a student to be denied practicing his/her religion, if his/her religion mandates the head scarf. While an atheist ha…

> But if you want to benefit from what public schools have to offer, you have to abide by their rules. And one of them is that expression of religion is banned there.

Not in the USA. In this country it's constitutionally protected.

Re: The Science of the Benefits of Religion

#184

Post by afpx »

dQw4w9WgXcQ wrote: post #140

So much of the US population cruises along unconsciously on an implicit set of Judeo-Christian values and morals. Increasingly many citizens claim to have left religion behind and subscribe to an exclusively scientific worldview, but the majority of their upstanding behavior still stems from religious beliefs. Pressed to reveal its true character, a purely scientific worldview produces no inherent sense of meaning, m…

Well, there are a couple billion people who didn't grow up in a Judeo-Christian societies. And, yet, they seem to have morality and life meaning. So, I think you mean, religion in general.

Also, I'm not aware of record of hunter gatherer societies that didn't have religion. Religion is probably something baked in. At least I know that it's baked into me, so I run with it and enjoy it. It's possible to be both rational and religious.

Re: The Science of the Benefits of Religion

#185

Post by hota_mazi »

truetraveller wrote: post #117
hota_mazi wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think that doing good only because you are being watched is a good value to have? IF yes, then please, by all means, continue believing in your god if that's all that keeps you from raping and killing people. Atheists do good because it's the right thing to do. You seem to do it because you are afraid of getting punished.

>You think that doing good only because you are being watched Never said "only because" of being watched. Being watched is an added measure. > Atheists do good because it's the right thing to do Many atheists, from personal experience, most don't really care to do good when no one's watching. Not saying it applies to all atheists, but for many. It's simply not rational. Why do good? For "karma"? So, the atheist has r…

We do good because it feels good to do good, but also because evolution allowed us to develop empathy.

We feel a natural need to help other people because we hope that other people would help us if we needed it to.

"Today, you. Tomorrow me".

We hold the door to strangers, help them carry stuff, or pick them up they have a flat tire, and none of that requires the existence of a vengeful god who will send us into a lake of eternal fire if we don't comply to his wishes. We help each other because we are a social species.

We do it because most people on this planet are good people who want to be happy and who want people around them to be happy.

Religion and gods are unnecessary for any of this.

Re: The Science of the Benefits of Religion

#186

Post by toolz »

Thorrez wrote: post #180
joe_the_user wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Secular philosophy has failed to produce enough value for ordinary people living ordinary lives embedded in the ordinary matrix of threats and opportunities presented by every day life. I don't there's much, if any, evidence for this claim. Religion is in a steep decline in Europe but there's little evidence for more anti-social behavior. The American mid-west, where your quote comes from, in contrast is especially r…

What is the horrific midwest social problem?

Specifically I'd like to see some quantifiable data because any region (including the EU) can be claimed to have horrific social problems without anything other than subjective data to back up those claims.

To be honest, I've never heard of the midwest referred to anything other than boring, which seems like it would be a strong contradiction to "horrific social problems"

Re: The Science of the Benefits of Religion

#187

Post by stevofolife »

ggggtez wrote: post #155

> Secular philosophy has failed to produce enough value for ordinary people living ordinary lives Consider the situation: you want to get an abortion. Or you know someone who does. I don't think I need to spell out the debate. But the secular world view is producing value for people who don't want to be afraid that they will spend literally INFINITY TIME being tortured. (And arguably it produces value for the religio…

Once you study Christianity, you will realize it actually offers you true freedom from the crap happening in the secular world.

Re: The Science of the Benefits of Religion

#188

Post by toolz »

smackeyacky wrote: post #178
BuyMyBitcoins wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be a second or third order effect. It stands to reason that someone who is a part of a strong religious community would have a much better social life, support structure, and network. All of these things reduce the likelihood of getting addicted to hard drugs. You could also take it a step further and say that having such things makes breaking an addiction/rehab more likely to be successful, too.

Drug use and abuse levels do differ between religious and irreligious folk, but one explanation for that might be regional availability rather than religion. https://drugabuse.com/featured/drugs-and-devotion/

It seems like religious people would be far less likely to seek professional help for abuse and that would skew these numbers greatly, considering the methodology.

Religious community members have far more reason to avoid acknowledging their drug problem in a way that might make that information public.

Re: The Science of the Benefits of Religion

#189

Post by MisterBastahrd »

api wrote: post #55

One of the more profound statements I once heard on the problem with modern secular philosophy was this throwaway comment I read online years ago: "Creationism is true if it will keep my kids off oxycontin." (I'm guessing the poster was from the rural Midwestern US.) I'm not saying I agree with that statement, but I can see where they are coming from. I found it to be one of the more profoundly honest and deep statem…

"Creationism is true if it will keep my kids off oxycontin."

It sure doesn't keep them off meth.

Re: The Science of the Benefits of Religion

#190

Post by iammisc »

rayiner wrote: post #46
PartiallyTyped wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between religion and other groups is that it provides an impenetrable shield to those who wield it, and virtually anything can be deflected a-la > God's ways are mysterious fashion. Any differing positions appear as attacks against the person's religion, which - when it carries sufficient argumentative power - can shake the foundations of the person's world model. This, in turn, prevents them from acce…

> The difference between religion and other groups is that it provides an impenetrable shield to those who wield it, and virtually anything can be deflected Yeah, other groups have this as well. I once had the temerity to observe that Bush did a lot to quell anti-Islamic sentiment by appealing to other people of faith in post-9/11 speeches. I recounted my own experience as a brown guy with a Muslim name living in the…

Haha same. Been informed by so many white liberals as to how I should feel, one wonders if they think they'd make a better brown man.
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