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Apple is working on iPhone features to help detect depression, cognitive decline

wsj.com

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Re: Apple is working on iPhone features to help detect depression, cognitive decline

#131

Post by AnonC »

amelius wrote: post #62
mark_l_watson wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great anecdote about your friend. As long as no health data leaves my Apple Watch + iPhone, I am OK with local deep learning (or other models) running on my devices. I do wish there were International standards and local laws supporting: all data staying on users' devices unless explicitly shared with health care providers, and also agreed upon standards for anonymizing explicitly shared data for the public good (res…

The problem here is the tight integration by Apple: the app and the networking services are implemented by the same company. I'd be ok with an app by a third party which does not automatically gets network access on my phone explicitly or implicitly, so I know my data doesn't leave my phone.

Your wish wouldn’t work on iOS. Apple hasn’t so far focused on adding Internet access permission. Every app on the device gets access to the network by default. There is no way to stop one app from accessing the Internet while allowing others.

Re: Apple is working on iPhone features to help detect depression, cognitive decline

#132

Post by laurent92 »

bserge wrote: post #76
ArchStanton wrote: post #54

I can imagine the advertising value of watching for depression and cognitive decline. In the latter case, you could probably sell a dozen extended warranties for the same item. EZ prediction of the day. Combine depression, cognitive decline, anger, etc. values against a database of gun owners (picked up through registration, social media posts, ATF background checks, etc.). Send police to house when some crossover po…

Funny how that sounds more plausible than them selling mental healthcare services. Those are extremely hard to get. Have a doctor actually help you? Nah, police raid. I'm speaking as a second class European with experience in Belgium, UK and Germany.

Same. Who needs an app to tell you that you’re depressed? Memes are writing themselves. Imagine your government mandating stay-home orders, having lost most friends, craving Youtube content, ruminating about previous experiences, and your phone popping up a message saying “That’s it. You’re suicidal. Here are friends you can call.” and the list shows up empty. Or there’s your ex, the local pizza service and your late parents.

When people are depressed, they tend to know it. (but the sibling comments say it may be good to point a maniac episode for a bipolar person).

Re: Apple is working on iPhone features to help detect depression, cognitive decline

#133

Post by sneak »

ArchStanton wrote: post #54

I can imagine the advertising value of watching for depression and cognitive decline. In the latter case, you could probably sell a dozen extended warranties for the same item. EZ prediction of the day. Combine depression, cognitive decline, anger, etc. values against a database of gun owners (picked up through registration, social media posts, ATF background checks, etc.). Send police to house when some crossover po…

This is precisely why there isn't a central database of gun owners in the USA.

Some states have even banned the keeping of identifying data in purchase records at the individual stores, too.

Re: Apple is working on iPhone features to help detect depression, cognitive decline

#134

Post by xanaxagoras »

AnonC wrote: post #131
amelius wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is the tight integration by Apple: the app and the networking services are implemented by the same company. I'd be ok with an app by a third party which does not automatically gets network access on my phone explicitly or implicitly, so I know my data doesn't leave my phone.

Your wish wouldn’t work on iOS. Apple hasn’t so far focused on adding Internet access permission. Every app on the device gets access to the network by default. There is no way to stop one app from accessing the Internet while allowing others.

I remember reading about a guy who got FreeBSD's "pf" working on an iPad. MacOS used to (still does?) ship with it. They could do it, they just don't want. They'd certainly never let you be the admin of it and block the gazillion telemetry requests they make back to themselves.

Re: Apple is working on iPhone features to help detect depression, cognitive decline

#136

Post by gremloni »

concinds wrote: post #86

A little dismayed that the sci-fi "tech futurism" attitude of previous decades is now a beaten, lifeless corpse. Opt-in health features that give you more control over your health? World-ending! But 20 years ago, we were imagining a little wristband-type machine that would be able to non-invasively and routinely analyse blood samples, detecting cancer a decade early, increasing human lifespans, etc. This pattern is a…

The common thread making these discoveries dystopian is that all that data feeds back into a central hub. Take that away and the optimism will return.

Re: Apple is working on iPhone features to help detect depression, cognitive decline

#137

Post by hungryforcodes »

user-the-name wrote: post #47
worrycue wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, it would probably be fine if it could be turned off and if turned on, doesn’t report its findings back to Apple (or anyone, but you, for the matter).

No Apple health features report anything back to Apple or anyone else. Why would you expect this to be different?

Even if that's true -- and you've provided no proof -- the data would most likely get stored on iCloud, and just like iPhotos, Apple will decide one day to just start trolling through it for fun and profit.

CSAM is coming back in other ways. Apple will try again.

Re: Apple is working on iPhone features to help detect depression, cognitive decline

#138

Post by selfhoster11 »

Tade0 wrote: post #29
gordon_freeman wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read 1984 so many times and it still gives me chills whenever I read it again.

If you, ahem, liked 1984, you'll want to read: https://elan.school/

I've read this to the end. This makes North Korea or the actual 1984 look like a failure.

Edit: oh, look. Downvoted without so much as a comment about the reason why. This seems to be happening here more and more frequently on this site. Luckily I can leave this site, unlike the unlucky Elan kids. I wanted to delete my account for a while, but whoever downvoted this just sealed my decision. Thank you for that. Peace out.

Re: Apple is working on iPhone features to help detect depression, cognitive decline

#139

Post by ashtonkem »

Jtsummers wrote: post #23

Since most of the comments here seem to be on the hysterical side: 1. This is not something Apple is rolling out now with their devices and systems. 2. This is research being done by UCLA and BioNTech using Apple's various sensors. 3. There's nothing concerning here (yet). This is a common kind of research using novel sensors (either actually novel sensors or taking advantage of their now-pervasiveness). Webcams were…

Even if they do roll it out, this is totally fine as long as users are given a chance for informed consent and control over the data.

I see no particular issues with the afib detection in WatchOS from a privacy perspective. As long as they handle any new health features similarly, should be fine.

Re: Apple is working on iPhone features to help detect depression, cognitive decline

#140

Post by ashtonkem »

bfga wrote: post #30
Jtsummers wrote: post #23

Since most of the comments here seem to be on the hysterical side: 1. This is not something Apple is rolling out now with their devices and systems. 2. This is research being done by UCLA and BioNTech using Apple's various sensors. 3. There's nothing concerning here (yet). This is a common kind of research using novel sensors (either actually novel sensors or taking advantage of their now-pervasiveness). Webcams were…

The pattern is always the same. When an invasive technology or a precursor to an invasive technology is announced, someone on HN sagely points out that everyone should be reasonable and drop the conspiracy theories. Five years later the tech is on everyone's phone.

Which is why all the afib data from watchOS got leaked to increase insurance costs, right? Right?

Sometimes the sky does not actually fall.

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