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Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

telegra.ph

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Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#101

Post by spindle »

cnst wrote: post #12

A very objective article, actually, and goes well to explain how this request to block the "voting app" isn't at all as controversial as portrayed in the Western MSM: > Second, this particular demand of the Russian authorities wasn't obviously unconstitutional, as they referred to a law that restricts campaigning after people start casting their votes. Laws against political campaigning while voting is underway exist…

I agree.

And I love that Durov carefully says

> Telegram gives its users more freedom of speech than any other popular mobile application.

(emphasis added by me)

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#102

Post by sprafa »

noxer wrote: post #59
GekkePrutser wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda doubt that part. If he was in their good graces again I think we'd hear more about it But I think Russia is a much bigger market for Telegram than Iran was. It's where they started after all. I'm pretty sure that'll play a part in it too. Easy thing to throw away 0.5% of your marketshare, another when it's 20%. Ps I made those numbers up :)

When Russia wanted some kind of encryption keys he could not hand over because they dont exist, Telegram was banned in Russia but people found ways to use it anyway. So I dont think Russia has anything to "force" Durov other than via Apple/Google. He doesn't live there or owns anything there and according to past posts of him and there are no Telegram servers there either. + The proxy stuff to circumvent Russia's ban…

Family

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#103

Post by Aachen »

cunidev wrote: post #70

While Telegram is seen as a "wild west" of free speech by many, its centralization and worrying lack of encryption for most "non-secret" chats is something to keep in mind when reading Durov's passionate claims. - https://www.wired.com/story/telegram-encryption-whatsapp-set... - https://portswigger.net/daily-swig/amp/multiple-encryption-f... Also, the optional E2EE encryption is way more limited (e.g., single-device,…

I doubt many here are still under the illusion that Telegram has anything to do with security or encrypted messaging. (It's just too damn convenient for UX reasons.)

That's not the same as a "wild west of free speech", though. I have no idea how well they do on the front of censorship, they're way too intransparent an organisation for that, but the USA also sees itself as such and it is not encrypted. Secure protocols and censorship are two separate things, even if one (in this day and age) helps the other.

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#104

Post by galaxyLogic »

cnst wrote: post #12

A very objective article, actually, and goes well to explain how this request to block the "voting app" isn't at all as controversial as portrayed in the Western MSM: > Second, this particular demand of the Russian authorities wasn't obviously unconstitutional, as they referred to a law that restricts campaigning after people start casting their votes. Laws against political campaigning while voting is underway exist…

> On the contrary, had Russia or any other country demanded something that is in clear violation of human rights

Isn't voting right a human right? If people don't have right to fair elections then any other rights they might have aren't guaranteed either.

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#105

Post by noxer »

foxfluff wrote: post #96
noxer wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They ban bots all the time. Bots are consider public and have to comply with telegrams ToS and to an extent with Apple/Googles ToS. Problems here mostly are related to illegal data, copyright infringement and adult content. If they could not remove such stuff Telegram would have long been shut down or at least kicked from all app stores. The same rules apply to any other app on the stores. No technical solution (encr…

> The same rules apply to any other app on the stores. So you can't sell a web browser that can access illegal copyright infringing adult content? I think they should remove all browsers then.

The browser does not host or provide content. Messengers like Telegram however do. Public telegram content can be found direct with telegrams in-app search.

Also everyone knows that browsers are excluded form most of these store rules because reasons. Browsers dont have to pay a fee for ads shown either for obvious reasons.

BTW you can use web.telegram.org to circumvent apple blocked content on telegram because this runs in a browser they dont have to comply with app store rules (for now). And you can use F-Droids Telegram Fork or the APK form telegram.org to circumvent googles blocked content.

In case of a bot that is turned off however this does not help because its turned off at the backed.

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#106

Post by galaxyLogic »

saurik wrote: post #41

Apple pushing requirements on apps is also (supposedly) why a lot of apps (such as Instagram, which had explicitly come out to blame Apple for this) banned content of women breastfeeding, as Apple (due to Steve Jobs: there is some interesting stuff you can find on this) is so puritan. You can also find tons of other examples of Apple's influence making decisions about what large numbers of people can experience, ofte…

> tends to make Apple a patsy for local government interference

It feels like that's part of their business model. Apple (and Google) can have more business if they follow the dictates of dictators. Dictators can "buy" suppression of free speech from Apple/Google.

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#107

Post by twelve40 »

galaxyLogic wrote: post #104
cnst wrote: post #12

A very objective article, actually, and goes well to explain how this request to block the "voting app" isn't at all as controversial as portrayed in the Western MSM: > Second, this particular demand of the Russian authorities wasn't obviously unconstitutional, as they referred to a law that restricts campaigning after people start casting their votes. Laws against political campaigning while voting is underway exist…

> On the contrary, had Russia or any other country demanded something that is in clear violation of human rights Isn't voting right a human right? If people don't have right to fair elections then any other rights they might have aren't guaranteed either.

The specific case that is described in this post is the law to stop campaigning during an ongoing vote, which seems like a reasonable request. Why is Telegram getting held responsible for everything else that is wrong in this world, is not clear.

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#108

Post by swiley »

cunidev wrote: post #70

While Telegram is seen as a "wild west" of free speech by many, its centralization and worrying lack of encryption for most "non-secret" chats is something to keep in mind when reading Durov's passionate claims. - https://www.wired.com/story/telegram-encryption-whatsapp-set... - https://portswigger.net/daily-swig/amp/multiple-encryption-f... Also, the optional E2EE encryption is way more limited (e.g., single-device,…

There are no good smartphone messaging apps. XMPP with OMEMO is the best you can do currently.

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#109

Post by echelon »

webmobdev wrote: post #57
echelon wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is downvoting you? We should never support censorship or the erosion of privacy. Preservation of these two is essential for our democracy and freedom.

Yesterday I could only make two posts on HN before HN temporarily banned me with the message "Please slow down. You are posting too fast." This kind of ban is only for a few hours. I don't know if this ban is automatically triggered or mod initiated but believe the trigger for it is when some comments of mine receive high upvotes and downvotes (perhaps "flagging" the comment as "controversial / inflammatory"). And I…

I'm convinced FAAMNG are a partisan voting block.

Occam's razor leads me to believe that it's organic behavior and not organized vote brigading. Perhaps employees or shareholders take opposition to negativity more frequently than not. Or maybe negative articles get posted on an internal company Slack and get extra attention.

I suppose they could hire a service that does the same as a form of brand management, but I'm more inclined to think that those in our profession have simply forgotten the importance of privacy and speech when they're being paid not to care.

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#110

Post by abecedarius »

galaxyLogic wrote: post #106
saurik wrote: post #41

Apple pushing requirements on apps is also (supposedly) why a lot of apps (such as Instagram, which had explicitly come out to blame Apple for this) banned content of women breastfeeding, as Apple (due to Steve Jobs: there is some interesting stuff you can find on this) is so puritan. You can also find tons of other examples of Apple's influence making decisions about what large numbers of people can experience, ofte…

> tends to make Apple a patsy for local government interference It feels like that's part of their business model. Apple (and Google) can have more business if they follow the dictates of dictators. Dictators can "buy" suppression of free speech from Apple/Google.

Remember when Google left China. It's not a pipe dream to expect a strategic choice against working for a tyranny. (Yes, it is unusual. We can hope to make it less so.)
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