Live data from Hacker News

Cryptocurrency is something people tell lies about in hopes of getting richer

defector.com

381–390 of 411 posts

Re: Cryptocurrency is something people tell lies about in hopes of getting richer

#381

Cryptocurrency gives people something they want. At best it might a new decentralized leaderless censorship-resistant free-as-in-freedom finance platform. At worst it might be a new decentralized leaderless pyramid scheme where we don't even need a Bernie Madoff because now we have The Algorithm. If I am simultaneously cynical and hopeful, maybe it will have an adolescence of B and mature into A.

This article argues that they are currently used transactionally to launder money. Not the only way to launder money. Not an easy way to promote prosperity among the poor, either. Not even a heuristic to tell the good sources of money from blood-stained ones.

To get to (B) from here, we must endure some path dependence that takes us through an era of unaccountable wealth transfer.

Re: Cryptocurrency is something people tell lies about in hopes of getting richer

#382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as it's done on a public blockchain, validation becomes possible without needing to contact the DMV itself to provide that validation. For example, if you have a California driver's license and I (as a Nevadan) want to verify its validity (say, because I'm running a bar and you don't look 21+), I could check whatever public blockchain to which California posts its ID NFTs, compare that to some reference on th…

> some out-of-band method > some external certification process Or just skip the extra complexity and have it all handled by a central authority? Yes, you can use a blockchain to implement it how you describe, but I still don't buy that it has any real advantages. Also, who would run the blockchain? > a whole bunch of DMVs could very well post to the same blockchain and only trust the validity of ID tokens issued by…

> Or just skip the extra complexity and have it all handled by a central authority?

Then every agency would have to trust some central authority. Maybe doable for interstate queries (with the associated federal bloat, but that's hardly anything new), but once you go international that becomes a lot harder.

> Also, who would run the blockchain?

Who runs Bitcoin? Ethereum? Cardano? Dogecoin?

> If they are the only ones who can issue tokens and they have to trust each other anyway, why does it need to be a blockchain anyway instead of some shared database?

The amount of trust required for "I'm reasonably sure this agency issued this driver's license" is far lower than the trust required for "I'm okay with this agency having control over my agency's records".

> Or if you want to keep it distributed, a peer-to-peer distributed hash table or other peer-to-peer database of ID tokens that only the DMV's have write access to.

A.k.a. a blockchain. You don't even need to restrict write access; DMVs can readily ignore transactions by non-DMV entities.

> If all the states share a blockchain, then they could just as easily share a database and web interface that you can look up.

That ain't anywhere near as easy, both politically and technically. This is already something they struggle do to, and distributed ledgers make that struggle entirely unnecessary.

> if there's a centrally mandated blockchain they should be using

There wouldn't need to be a mandate. States are perfectly capable of making agreements with one another, and could opt into a public blockchain at their leisure. CCW reciprocity is a good example of this; states have on their own come to recognize concealed carry permits issued by other states, and a blockchain would be a natural fit for recording and authenticating said permits under that dynamic.

Even assuming the need for a mandate, it's a hell of a lot easier for the federal government to say "hey, all states need to use this public blockchain per this standard" than for the federal government to roll out a whole central database that's scalable enough to handle queries nationwide and say "hey, all states need to use this central database".

> The person checking (bar staff in your example) still need a website or app that they can input the data to derive the hash (as not to leak personal data) and check the hash against the blockchain, this could just as easily work against a central or state database

Yes, and that would - again - require either:

1. a central authority that each state's agency trusts to be the record of truth, or:

2. 50 separate databases with 50 separate APIs.

A public blockchain absolves the need for either; agencies can maintain their licensing data autonomously (and, for that matter, data pertaining to those licenses; e.g. recording traffic citations, additional endorsements, etc., even for licenses issued by other agencies) without needing to deal with all that infrastructure.

Re: Cryptocurrency is something people tell lies about in hopes of getting richer

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think that a cop is going to download some custom app (that somebody would build… for some reason) so they can have a preferred interface for their id lookup and police departments are going to approve of this and state governments are going to prefer this so much that they’d choose to implement licensing records using a more complex system that they have less control over?

> You think that a cop is going to download some custom app (that somebody would build… for some reason) It would more likely be something rolled out by the agency itself. That somebody could accordingly be the agency (preferably just a rebadged and customized version of some FOSS application) and "some reason" would be "not having to duplicate a bunch of effort just to maintain an ID database". > using a more comple…

> It would more likely be something rolled out by the agency itself.

I don't know police agencies well at all, but I suspect that if a local police force was deciding between "use the state system" and "use some frontend we built ourselves or needed to license ourselves and has no reason to have any tech support", they are going to choose "use the state system".

Or heck, just use a federal system.

Re: Cryptocurrency is something people tell lies about in hopes of getting richer

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some out-of-band method > some external certification process Or just skip the extra complexity and have it all handled by a central authority? Yes, you can use a blockchain to implement it how you describe, but I still don't buy that it has any real advantages. Also, who would run the blockchain? > a whole bunch of DMVs could very well post to the same blockchain and only trust the validity of ID tokens issued by…

> Or just skip the extra complexity and have it all handled by a central authority? Then every agency would have to trust some central authority. Maybe doable for interstate queries (with the associated federal bloat, but that's hardly anything new), but once you go international that becomes a lot harder. > Also, who would run the blockchain? Who runs Bitcoin? Ethereum? Cardano? Dogecoin? > If they are the only ones…

> Then every agency would have to trust some central authority.

They already have to do that! The central authority has to issue the licenses in the first place. Unless you are suggesting some absurd, decentralized driver's license issuing? Even that is begging the question though, as there has to be some centralized process to decide who is allowed to issue driver's licenses.

> A.k.a. a blockchain. You don't even need to restrict write access; DMVs can readily ignore transactions by non-DMV entities.

Alright, you are really stretching the definition of blockchain. Like, lets say someone just mirrors the database. So there is a web interface, and someone else copied the whole thing down.

Does that now count as a "blockchain" lol? Having more that 1 copies, of a mysql database, is a blockchain now?

Re: Cryptocurrency is something people tell lies about in hopes of getting richer

#385

I was thinking like the headline until I witnessed that a government seized assets of thousands and left them pennyless in a very short time. After coup attempt in Turkey, 1.5 million people are investigated with accusation of being a member of armed terrorist organization (population of Turkey is ~80 million). Lots of people who could run away found their assets were frozen, and eventually legally or illegally seize…

The fact that Bitcoin is a complete failure as a currency is why it's not practical to keep all of your assets in it even as a targeted person.

Don't keep all your assets in anything, including blood-fueled fiat. I have bought plenty of things, traded, gifted plenty of crypto, so to me and a lot of ppl around me, it's a currency.

Re: Cryptocurrency is something people tell lies about in hopes of getting richer

#386
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> centralized If you want to trust a conglomerate of folks who have a vested interest in keeping you small and poor to solve your problems, then there is no advantage. If you do not, then the advantage is exactly that it is not centralised.

What keeps people small and poor is the insistence that people should save in monetary terms. It's not rocket science. When you keep your wealth in monetary terms, you don't get to have it in physical terms. Money represents how much real wealth you could have if you spent it. It's deferred consumption. There is no real wealth in something that didn't happen.

Money is a store of value. Money is a measure of wealth.

Re: Cryptocurrency is something people tell lies about in hopes of getting richer

#387
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't trust the collective anonymous users of Bitcoin more than I trust my bank and the court system though. If someone hacks into my account, my bank will likely reimburse me for any losses. There are controls in place to stop them from stealing it al. If someone just transferred it to their own account, I could use the courts to get it back. If I use a credit card to pay a scam, I can do a charge-back. With crypt…

> There are controls in place to stop them from stealing it al. If someone just transferred it to their own account, I could use the courts to get it back. What if it's taken thorough wrongful civil forfeiture? Will you be able to afford to navigate the courts to get your assets back after they've been seized?

Cryptocurrencies are like Swiss bank accounts without Switzerland?

Re: Cryptocurrency is something people tell lies about in hopes of getting richer

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or just skip the extra complexity and have it all handled by a central authority? Then every agency would have to trust some central authority. Maybe doable for interstate queries (with the associated federal bloat, but that's hardly anything new), but once you go international that becomes a lot harder. > Also, who would run the blockchain? Who runs Bitcoin? Ethereum? Cardano? Dogecoin? > If they are the only ones…

> Then every agency would have to trust some central authority. They already have to do that! The central authority has to issue the licenses in the first place. Unless you are suggesting some absurd, decentralized driver's license issuing? Even that is begging the question though, as there has to be some centralized process to decide who is allowed to issue driver's licenses. > A.k.a. a blockchain. You don't even ne…

> The central authority has to issue the licenses in the first place.

The US federal government is not at all involved in issuing state drivers' licenses, last I checked. Nor is some international agency at all involved in issuing drivers' licenses within any given country. That's what I'm getting at with "central authority" - specifically, a central authority external to the issuer and/or validator.

> Like, lets say someone just mirrors the database. So there is a web interface, and someone else copied the whole thing down.

Is that person going to continually copy it down? What about data from other agencies? How many people are going to be using your web interface?

What I'm getting at there is that this all seems like an awful lot of work compared to just, you know, including some data in a transaction on any ol' existing blockchain (even Bitcoin or Dogecoin or what have you is good enough for this, let alone something that actually supports NFTs like Ethereum or Cardano) and using any ol' blockchain client/explorer to lookup whatever transaction got printed on the ID card.

Re: Cryptocurrency is something people tell lies about in hopes of getting richer

#389
post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stable coins do not solve the money printing problem at all. Their existence is mostly for avoiding tax events when speculators sell tops and buy dips. Also they are as centralized as it gets.

The term "decentralized stablecoins" itself precludes the USD-pegged voucher tokens you're referring to. I'm talking about things like Reflexer's RAI[1], which is designed to have stable value independently of any singular currency, and whose most centralized component is price oracles (so not very centralized). [1]: https://reflexer.finance/

Are you sure that if the dev team will ababdon the project tomorrow it will b existent and people will trust it 5 years for now? If not, it's centralized. Also, how can it be a stable coin if there is nothing explicitly stated as peg?

Re: Cryptocurrency is something people tell lies about in hopes of getting richer

#390
post #63

The rebranding of MySQL as blockchain was a brilliant move for sales. Bit torrent is decentralized and it doesn't use "blockchain". "Blockchain" only works for money and nothing else

I mean, if you look at transaction cost, settle time, user friendliness, and currency risk, it doesn't even work as a medium of exchange, which is the definition of money. More than a decade on, approximately nobody uses Bitcoin for normal transactions. Compare with Venmo or MPesa, both of which launched around the same time, to se what actual digital money looks like. Both of those do way more transactions than Bitc…

Wait until you learn how long settlement time really takes and how big fees are in traditional finance. This is hidden from you.
Post reply on HN