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Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

telegra.ph

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Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#51

Post by GekkePrutser »

lotusmars wrote: post #47
sega_sai wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that law does not apply for these elections that last several days https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4800223 The law allowing campaigning was passed in May 2021.

Yes, and this is the most puzzling lie in Durov’s post. He knows he’s lying. Personally I think he’s found a common ground with Kremlin behind the scenes.

I kinda doubt that part. If he was in their good graces again I think we'd hear more about it But I think Russia is a much bigger market for Telegram than Iran was. It's where they started after all.

I'm pretty sure that'll play a part in it too. Easy thing to throw away 0.5% of your marketshare, another when it's 20%. Ps I made those numbers up :)

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#53

Post by cnst »

sega_sai wrote: post #22
cnst wrote: post #12

A very objective article, actually, and goes well to explain how this request to block the "voting app" isn't at all as controversial as portrayed in the Western MSM: > Second, this particular demand of the Russian authorities wasn't obviously unconstitutional, as they referred to a law that restricts campaigning after people start casting their votes. Laws against political campaigning while voting is underway exist…

Except that law does not apply for these elections that last several days https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4800223 The law allowing campaigning was passed in May 2021.

As I understand the article, it used to be that campaigning has been disallowed as early as one day before the voting day.

Now it's disallowed starting from the voting day.

Is that not so?

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#54

Post by cnst »

lucb1e wrote: post #46
tandav wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter blocks telegra.ph links for the last 3 years

A friend recently wanted to post something anonymously. Turns out that finding a webhost depends on having an email address, and email hosts depend on having a phone number, and phone numbers depend on a payment mechanism and - in case of prepaid - a government ID needs to be shown. Telegra.ph seems to be one of the few places where you can (with a reasonable amount of markup) just post things at will. I didn't know…

Looks like telegra.ph link are shadowbanned from Reddit, too.

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#55

Post by GekkePrutser »

ledoge wrote: post #42
thevinter wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to point out that key management is hard when, like telegram, you can seamlessly access your account on multiple devices. See Signal or WhatsApp asking you to be on the same network with your phone etc. This is the only reason I didn't move to Signal yet and I don't think there's (yet) a clear solution.

The Signal desktop application doesn't have such a requirement. Unlike WhatsApp, it doesn't connect to your phone. You just scan a QR code for the initial setup and after that it's completely independent.

WhatsApp is dropping that requirement too by the way. The new system is already in beta.

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#56

Post by [deleted] »

noxer wrote: post #2

There was recently comments about this with questionable reasoning. There is an official statement now so everyone can make their own educated opinion. Please don't start a "telegram is not encrypted by default" shitstorm like in every other comment section about anything related to Telegram.

[deleted]

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#57

Post by webmobdev »

echelon wrote: post #10
webmobdev wrote: post #3

> First, without support from Apple and Google, any fight with a local regulator is lost before it starts ... Our website that hosts Telegram Web and the standalone Telegram app for Android would be blocked by local telecoms in a matter of minutes. Even existing users would lose access to Telegram once Apple and Google turn off notifications for the app (which are used not only to deliver messages to users, but also…

Who is downvoting you? We should never support censorship or the erosion of privacy. Preservation of these two is essential for our democracy and freedom.

Yesterday I could only make two posts on HN before HN temporarily banned me with the message "Please slow down. You are posting too fast." This kind of ban is only for a few hours. I don't know if this ban is automatically triggered or mod initiated but believe the trigger for it is when some comments of mine receive high upvotes and downvotes (perhaps "flagging" the comment as "controversial / inflammatory"). And I guess it is part of HN's moderation tactic to ensure quality of content, and while it is annoying sometimes, I don't see any conspiracy in it.

However, like you noticed, I do believe that some of my posts are targeted as part of the online marketing / "reputation management" that happens regularly all over the internet by BigTech. I am vocal about right to privacy, right to repair and need for government regulation of BigTech, and have noticed that if my posts on these subjects specifically mention Google, Apple, Microsoft or Amazon they are often downvoted (I once noticed a post go from 10 upvotes to 10 downvotes, in real-time, and that's when I realised what's happening).

(Anyway, HN doesn't like this kind of discussion as it doesn't add much value due to its speculative nature and it tends to distract us from the main topic.)

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#58

Post by peoplefromibiza »

sega_sai wrote: post #22
cnst wrote: post #12

A very objective article, actually, and goes well to explain how this request to block the "voting app" isn't at all as controversial as portrayed in the Western MSM: > Second, this particular demand of the Russian authorities wasn't obviously unconstitutional, as they referred to a law that restricts campaigning after people start casting their votes. Laws against political campaigning while voting is underway exist…

Except that law does not apply for these elections that last several days https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4800223 The law allowing campaigning was passed in May 2021.

tangential and not against your point, but isn't this proof that relying on applications provided by private companies for politics and public sensitive matters, is the best way to end like this?

especially when the only way to get the app is through a bunch of privately held "stores"

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#59

Post by noxer »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #51
lotusmars wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and this is the most puzzling lie in Durov’s post. He knows he’s lying. Personally I think he’s found a common ground with Kremlin behind the scenes.

I kinda doubt that part. If he was in their good graces again I think we'd hear more about it But I think Russia is a much bigger market for Telegram than Iran was. It's where they started after all. I'm pretty sure that'll play a part in it too. Easy thing to throw away 0.5% of your marketshare, another when it's 20%. Ps I made those numbers up :)

When Russia wanted some kind of encryption keys he could not hand over because they dont exist, Telegram was banned in Russia but people found ways to use it anyway. So I dont think Russia has anything to "force" Durov other than via Apple/Google. He doesn't live there or owns anything there and according to past posts of him and there are no Telegram servers there either. + The proxy stuff to circumvent Russia's ban is already implemented if they would block the IPs again.

It seems very likely that Apple/Google is actually the problem here. I encourage everyone to download the app from the website or F-Droid not form Google.

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#60

Post by seniorivn »

vldchk wrote: post #30

Here is the thing: Durov lies. There is no law in Russia which forces him to ban that channel, and no concept of “silent days” anymore. Russian authorities has NEVER asked Telegram to remove anything. They pushed Google and Apple to remove links to Navalny application from search and from Apple Store (and Apple removes it only for Russia users, btw, unlike Telegram removes it for everyone), and Telegram was absolutel…

>and buyers of those bonds are affiliated with Russia structures like VTB Capital bank or Russian Government investment fund named “Russian Fund of Direct Investments”.

As far as i know, it's not true(meaning there are no signs/proof of that). It's entirely possible, durov does have connections in russian elite, after all he was the creator of vk.com russian most popular social network. Vk was owned by russian oligarchs most of it's life at least partly. At the end of durov involvement with vk, he had some harsh clashes with oligarchs/regime, but ended up making a deal(and got paid well, even if not as well as he should've been). So he certainly knows how to deal with them, but i seriously doubt he enjoyed it, so he must have been really desperate if he got in bed with them again.

The biggest promise of telegram was that it would become a point of entrance to a decentralized economy based on TON blockchain and it's masternode hosted services. If they succeed to launch and than move telegram itself onto ton masternode hosting, telegram would've become the greatest/freest/(and potentially most secure, if they would implement e2ee key synchronization) messaging service ever

End of TON project, ment an end of telegram's future as a not data harvesting company.

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