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EU Is Warned Green Label for Gas Would Be ‘Disastrous’ Mistake

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Re: EU Is Warned Green Label for Gas Would Be ‘Disastrous’ Mistake

#31

Its sadder everyday that somehow humanity has failed to become a nuclear society. All our problems could have been solved decades ago but we are still nowhere near a solution.

Yesterday in Berlin pro-nuclear climate activists got attacked by the no-nuclear climate mob…

I live here and didn't hear about this. Have a link?

Re: EU Is Warned Green Label for Gas Would Be ‘Disastrous’ Mistake

#32

This is the collision between imperfect (but working) versus perfect (but not working). It's more important to get emissions down now than to aim for a perfect standard that no one has yet reached, and doesn't appear reachable any time soon. The emissions matter, not the goals of activist NGOs. This cuts emissions, that's why it qualified. Results > ideology.

Adding more methane(or any GHG) doesn’t cut emissions. That’s why it doesn’t qualify

Results > ideology

Snark aside we have already have low/no emission energy alternatives. Nuclear, wind, and solar. No need to pretend that gas is part of that group.

Re: EU Is Warned Green Label for Gas Would Be ‘Disastrous’ Mistake

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday in Berlin pro-nuclear climate activists got attacked by the no-nuclear climate mob…

I can never understand why attacks by "activists" do not result in dozens of arrests and convictions for multiple years of prison every time they happen. Isn't it basically what any sovereign law says?

In most Western countries you won't go to prison at all, let alone for several years, for common assault. Maybe if you caused serious injury.

Re: EU Is Warned Green Label for Gas Would Be ‘Disastrous’ Mistake

#34

Its sadder everyday that somehow humanity has failed to become a nuclear society. All our problems could have been solved decades ago but we are still nowhere near a solution.

Green Parties the world over are anti-nuclear and have been since the 80s. Considering how much harm to the environment has come by the hand of green parties, I'm beginning to wonder if they aren't lobbied by fossil fuel companies.

Dunno about parties, but multiple eco-focused organisations are paid at least in part by oil & gas. Greenpeace actually founded a gas-providing energy utility in Germany (Greenpeace Energy, recently renamed Green Planet Energy to… avoid headlines about Greenpeace selling gas, despite those headlines being true). Other orgs got more direct funding from oil & gas players e.g. FoEI was literally founded with an oil baron's donation, and Sierra Club got millions recently from drilling & fracking company Chesapeake Energy.

Both Greenpeace and FoEI were actually founded by Sierra Club members who thought Sierra was not anti-nuclear enough. After a while, Sierra's platform changed to be more anti-nuclear (its current position).

And don't discount funding from Russia, that goes really well with both Russia's destabilisation goals and anti-coal campaigns leading to higher dependence on Russian natural gas.

Re: EU Is Warned Green Label for Gas Would Be ‘Disastrous’ Mistake

#35

Its sadder everyday that somehow humanity has failed to become a nuclear society. All our problems could have been solved decades ago but we are still nowhere near a solution.

Part of the issues of nuclear remain the high costs, hairy security situation in many countries and very limited ability to adapt to demand.

This is both in the night-and-day cycle meaning but also in the "we need more power in 10-years" meaning, since nuclear power plants take forever to build.

Saying that all our problems could have been solved by nuclear is not close to the truth, especially regarding climate change. Ongoing electrification and decarbonisation isn't hard because of the electricity needs, but because technologies are just now coming close to viability in many markets and aren't even close in others.

The ongoing transformation of the electricity generation market to renewables isn't failing because of technical inability, but hesitancy to invest, strong local and national (e.g. the minimum distance that wind farms need in germany, eliminating most of the possible options), opposition to new projects, strong opposition to new transmission lines, strong opposition to losing the jobs in the legacy markets (especially visible in the USA with "clean" Coal) and no burning desire to honestly consider the storage issue (both in regards to demand shifting and building of new storage facilities using hydrogen or synthetic gases and similar things).

Our problems aren't solved because solving them isn't a high enough political (and thus also economical, due to the negative externality not being financially relevant) priority around the world, not because we're not using nuclear for everything.

Re: EU Is Warned Green Label for Gas Would Be ‘Disastrous’ Mistake

#36
post #13

We can’t just ignore the fact that a carbon problem will not be solved by releasing more carbon into the atmosphere. We have half a dozen sources of carbon free energy. The EU is right here. Including gas power in the green book is laughable.

> he EU is right here. Including gas power in the green book is laughable.

The EU is the one considering including it...

Re: EU Is Warned Green Label for Gas Would Be ‘Disastrous’ Mistake

#37
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday in Berlin pro-nuclear climate activists got attacked by the no-nuclear climate mob…

I live here and didn't hear about this. Have a link?

This is the least bad source I have found: https://www.bz-berlin.de/berlin/mitte/bei-fridays-for-future...

Re: EU Is Warned Green Label for Gas Would Be ‘Disastrous’ Mistake

#38
post #18
post #2

[flagged]

Not going to stop you in whatever you're doing, but ironically socialists tend to dislike the EU because it is primarily a common market. The reason most of the EU's leftists don't support a Brexit-style exit is that it's economic and geopolitical suicide unless your country's economy is already fully self-sufficient (i.e. if all imports and exports were shut down the country would still flourish). Also socialists te…

Yeah, the EU has been run by conservatives and neoliberals since... forever?

I don't think the centre-left ever had a majority in the European Parliament, and certainly not in the European Commission (i.e. the heads of state).

This is why they're considering including natural gas here, the EU is basically run by German industrialists.

Re: EU Is Warned Green Label for Gas Would Be ‘Disastrous’ Mistake

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday in Berlin pro-nuclear climate activists got attacked by the no-nuclear climate mob…

I can never understand why attacks by "activists" do not result in dozens of arrests and convictions for multiple years of prison every time they happen. Isn't it basically what any sovereign law says?

Usually that's called oppression and leads to bigger protests and riots.

Re: EU Is Warned Green Label for Gas Would Be ‘Disastrous’ Mistake

#40
post #10

Don't forget that climate change is good for Russia...

The same could be said about the US as the warming will also make natural resources in Alaska more approachable.

Pretty sure transportation and drilling/mining is harder when the ground thaws and is a swampy mess.
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