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Pope Francis and Other Christian Leaders Are Calling for Bold Climate Action

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Re: Pope Francis and Other Christian Leaders Are Calling for Bold Climate Action

#31

Post by analog31 »

Great. Now tell the American bishops to call off the culture war.

Catholics have instructions on how to resolve the dilemma where one candidate supports doctrine A, and the other candidate supports doctrine B. In plain terms, it's basically "choose your battles." This came to light when the dilemma of the day was abortion versus capital punishment and the poor.

Owing largely to the culture war, American Catholics have provided decisive support to the party that calls global warming a hoax. This isn't a political statement on my part, but just a statistical one.

My view is that the Church has quietly held a token position on global warming while concentrating its social influence on other matters. I don't have a definitive answer on this, and could of course be wrong, but choosing the wrong battle is a moral failure.

Re: Pope Francis and Other Christian Leaders Are Calling for Bold Climate Action

#32

Post by dangsface »

mercy_dude wrote: post #28
legutierr wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and 25% of the US population is Catholic, half of which group votes Republican (i.e., against reforms designed to prevent or slow climate change). If more people come to believe that they have a moral obligation to do what they can to prevent climate change—including by supporting government interventions and investments, and gracefully accepting higher energy costs and energy taxes—then maybe we can hope for a…

> half of which group votes Republican (i.e., against reforms designed to prevent or slow climate change). That’s a very cynical statement. Goes to show why both sides will never meet in the middle of the road with thinking that way. Voting republicans doesn’t mean I am against climate change reforms. The issue at hand is how practically we deal with it and reduce demands on fossil fuel and transition to clean energy…

From what I understand, cynical doesn't mean a lack of truth. So when you say it is cynical, what you are saying is that cynicism shouldn't be allowed.

I loathe this world of fake humans constantly pretending to be delusionally optimistic. I don't have real conversations anymore.

Saying "that's a very cynical statement" shows that we have to constantly lie to one another.

I hope you realize this

Re: Pope Francis and Other Christian Leaders Are Calling for Bold Climate Action

#33

Post by dr_dshiv »

magicroot75 wrote: post #9
dr_dshiv wrote: post #4

Cool, maybe these Christian leaders will finally be accepting of voluntary birth control as a wise form of choosing life — e.g., by acting as a steward of nature and reducing poverty? (Ok, well, even if not, the gesture in support of environmental justice is appreciated)

Thus is the curse of being a religion. You do one thing that general society helps. And then they just criticize another piece of your belief system. There's no system that will perfectly allow people to both find value and meaning in their world AND also promote totally free action of others. Thus we live in a contemporary world of non-religious people seeking out value (look at the current obsession in Silicon Vall…

> There's no system that will perfectly allow people to both find value and meaning in their world AND also promote totally free action of others.

Pretty stoked with the current state of liberal democratic market systems, actually. Way better than any other system, especially the theocracies. But, I am missing social and cultural capital. I am trying to find this in academic scholarship in western esotericism and psychedelics. It works out ok, but then, you know, it can alienate others. But at least it is rationally and emotionally fulfilling.

Re: Pope Francis and Other Christian Leaders Are Calling for Bold Climate Action

#34

Post by hobs »

roenxi wrote: post #27
williamtrask wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty cynical. The Christian church has guided the way in which many people live for thousands of years, and a cross-denominational, united stance against climate change from its leadership is likely to have impact. Certainly a positive development.

It is rather cynical but also rather accurate to note that people like being warm in winter, and the Catholic Church is not going to make environmentalism their core mission. They already have a core mission, it involves human souls. The environmentalists have faced stiff resistance in my life time not because anyone likes coal or oil, but because there were no alternatives. It isn't like the Catholics have ever had…

I feel like increasing the warmth to the point where large mammals cant live evokes another warm place Catholics generally want to avoid.

Re: Pope Francis and Other Christian Leaders Are Calling for Bold Climate Action

#35

Post by fascistusa »

williamtrask wrote: post #22
lbriner wrote: post #2

I'm not sure how valuable this is really. Most people, I assume, would wholeheartedly agree but since the CC culprits are not 'Christians who cause climate change', then the pope or Archbishop saying what loads of other people are saying is neither surprising nor worth it. Personally, I would like to see practical ways of acually reducing fossil fuel demands but this is much harder for the church, except in their own…

This is pretty cynical. The Christian church has guided the way in which many people live for thousands of years, and a cross-denominational, united stance against climate change from its leadership is likely to have impact. Certainly a positive development.

From what I understand, cynical doesn't mean a lack of truth. So when you say it is cynical, what you are saying is that cynicism shouldn't be allowed.

I loathe this world of fake humans constantly pretending to be delusionally optimistic. I don't have real conversations anymore.

Saying "that's a very cynical statement" shows that we have to constantly lie to one another.

I hope you realize this

Re: Pope Francis and Other Christian Leaders Are Calling for Bold Climate Action

#36

Post by fascistusa »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #30
roenxi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is rather cynical but also rather accurate to note that people like being warm in winter, and the Catholic Church is not going to make environmentalism their core mission. They already have a core mission, it involves human souls. The environmentalists have faced stiff resistance in my life time not because anyone likes coal or oil, but because there were no alternatives. It isn't like the Catholics have ever had…

> Catholic Church is not going to make environmentalism their core mission Being a good steward of nature is and has been a very important part of Catholic doctrine for a very long time.

[dead]

Re: Pope Francis and Other Christian Leaders Are Calling for Bold Climate Action

#37

Post by conductr »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #30
roenxi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is rather cynical but also rather accurate to note that people like being warm in winter, and the Catholic Church is not going to make environmentalism their core mission. They already have a core mission, it involves human souls. The environmentalists have faced stiff resistance in my life time not because anyone likes coal or oil, but because there were no alternatives. It isn't like the Catholics have ever had…

> Catholic Church is not going to make environmentalism their core mission Being a good steward of nature is and has been a very important part of Catholic doctrine for a very long time.

Yet here we are, how does this improve the situation? I hold a cynical view as to the influence religion has on this particular subject as well.

I view religion as a large corporation, they have finally realized the long term impact of CC will be bad for business. Just like corporate BODs they are increasingly asking management to put forth a climate strategy. And investment firms that are moving their portfolio away from fossil fuel, it’s just modern corporate policy to have a stance that protects shareholder value in the long term. But really it’s just something to point to when asked “what are you doing about the climate?”

A bit of a rant there, but to reiterate, I don’t see how this influences action in a meaningful way. I’m glad they are doing it, it’s better than not.

Re: Pope Francis and Other Christian Leaders Are Calling for Bold Climate Action

#38

Post by input_sh »

mercy_dude wrote: post #28
legutierr wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and 25% of the US population is Catholic, half of which group votes Republican (i.e., against reforms designed to prevent or slow climate change). If more people come to believe that they have a moral obligation to do what they can to prevent climate change—including by supporting government interventions and investments, and gracefully accepting higher energy costs and energy taxes—then maybe we can hope for a…

> half of which group votes Republican (i.e., against reforms designed to prevent or slow climate change). That’s a very cynical statement. Goes to show why both sides will never meet in the middle of the road with thinking that way. Voting republicans doesn’t mean I am against climate change reforms. The issue at hand is how practically we deal with it and reduce demands on fossil fuel and transition to clean energy…

> Policies touted by a lot of left leaning politicians aren’t practical and many of them know it but they say it anyway.

Your point stands, Democrat solutions addressing climate change are definitely pretty bad. That being said, at least they have some climate change policies they're pushing for right now instead of kicking the can down the road. Can you honestly say the same about Republicans?

Re: Pope Francis and Other Christian Leaders Are Calling for Bold Climate Action

#40

Post by fascistusa »

jl6 wrote: post #12
lbriner wrote: post #2

I'm not sure how valuable this is really. Most people, I assume, would wholeheartedly agree but since the CC culprits are not 'Christians who cause climate change', then the pope or Archbishop saying what loads of other people are saying is neither surprising nor worth it. Personally, I would like to see practical ways of acually reducing fossil fuel demands but this is much harder for the church, except in their own…

One step at a time. Not even the Pope, alone, is going to solve this, but every bit of support adds to the critical mass of people calling for change.

What does talking do? How is talking an actionable thing? It seems the majority of people are talking about making change. One more person doesn't make a difference if no one is doing anything.
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