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Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

theintercept.com

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Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#351

Post by dash2 »

t0rt01se wrote: post #345
gfodor wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “zero evidence” claim is fun because every day there is a failure to discover an origin species is de facto evidence of a non-zootonic origin, since that evidence is not subject to being hidden and is highly incentivized to find given it would be exculpatory.

The "zero evidence" claim is a blatant attempt to shift the burden of proof. In my opinion the burden of proof remains with those hypothesizing zoonotic origin.

I’d suggest the opposite. [edit: not the opposite, the same!]

If it’s conceivable that gain of function research can release a virus that kills millions, then the burden of proof is with the researchers to prove that they’re safe and this didn’t happen.

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#352

Post by t0rt01se »

dash2 wrote: post #351
t0rt01se wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "zero evidence" claim is a blatant attempt to shift the burden of proof. In my opinion the burden of proof remains with those hypothesizing zoonotic origin.

I’d suggest the opposite. [edit: not the opposite, the same!] If it’s conceivable that gain of function research can release a virus that kills millions, then the burden of proof is with the researchers to prove that they’re safe and this didn’t happen.

Please read my comment again. Perhaps you aren't suggesting the opposite.

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#353

Post by hirako2000 »

the-dude wrote: post #319
hirako2000 wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not either way. Investigations to find out whether this virus was in fact made in lab has tremendous utility. First it would seek reparation from all parties involved in creating this chaos. Second it will dissuade other lunatic research group or companies getting funny ideas in the future.

How can any reparation be meaningful on this scale of damages?

We don't ask this question when it comes to murder. Why would we in this case?

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#354

Post by Aeolun »

tikiman163 wrote: post #339

Guys, two points here. One, this proposal was rejected. This did not happen! Two, their proposal was for genetic manipulation of an existing virus, which research on the existing corona virus shows was not the case. This has nothing to do with the corona virus strains we are currently dealing with, and more importantly, there has never been any credible research proving that Covid was made in a lab. The only paper th…

As was stated elsewhere in this thread, researchers are often halfway done with something before they even write a proposal.

> Two, their proposal was for genetic manipulation of an existing virus, which research on the existing corona virus shows was not the case.

I think that’s invalidated if your first point is valid right? Since the proposal wasn’t accepted.

Doesn’t mean they didn’t go on to do it anyway (possibly in slightly different form), someone was clearly thinking about it.

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#355

Post by ImaCake »

wk_end wrote: post #333
ImaCake wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The viral phylogeny and history of it's evolution ... point to it being a natural zoonotic spillover event. Wuhan had a virus institute because it is a place where novel viruses are found, not the other way around.

This is not true as far as I’m aware. Novel bat coronaviruses like SARS-CoV-2 are usually found deep in bat caves in the south of China, ~2000km away from Wuhan. The WIV was established in the 50s, long before serious coronavirus research was a thing.

Heh good point. Maybe its proximity has helped it become important, or it could be an accident of geography.

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#356

Post by resonious »

tikiman163 wrote: post #339

Guys, two points here. One, this proposal was rejected. This did not happen! Two, their proposal was for genetic manipulation of an existing virus, which research on the existing corona virus shows was not the case. This has nothing to do with the corona virus strains we are currently dealing with, and more importantly, there has never been any credible research proving that Covid was made in a lab. The only paper th…

This novel virus started spreading pretty close to a lab that studies viruses. I think that counts as "actual evidence" that it came out of a lab. Of course, evidence != proof. And even if it did come from the lab, that in itself does not imply malice.

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#358

Post by rustymonday »

resonious wrote: post #356
tikiman163 wrote: post #339

Guys, two points here. One, this proposal was rejected. This did not happen! Two, their proposal was for genetic manipulation of an existing virus, which research on the existing corona virus shows was not the case. This has nothing to do with the corona virus strains we are currently dealing with, and more importantly, there has never been any credible research proving that Covid was made in a lab. The only paper th…

This novel virus started spreading pretty close to a lab that studies viruses. I think that counts as "actual evidence" that it came out of a lab. Of course, evidence != proof. And even if it did come from the lab, that in itself does not imply malice.

Exactly. It likely wasn't made in a lab, but it likely did escape from the lab accidentally.

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#359

Post by mandmandam »

dang wrote: post #239
mandmandam wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a thing that you are full of. I'mma be polite but you are full to the brim of it. edit: Wow, flagged within one minute. That's not weird at all /s So I'll expand: The comment above is ridiculous for 7 reasons. Try to find them all.

No need for sinister explanations—your comment broke the site guidelines egregiously, so users flagged it, entirely appropriately. We ban accounts that post like this, so please don't. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

... Egregiously? Really? Shit, what would a _mildly bad_ comment look like?

It's also weird that you'd take issue with my comment and not the one I'm replying to. Did you read it? It's got literally 7 kinds of deliberately crafted misinformation.

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#360

Post by beowulfey »

resonious wrote: post #356
tikiman163 wrote: post #339

Guys, two points here. One, this proposal was rejected. This did not happen! Two, their proposal was for genetic manipulation of an existing virus, which research on the existing corona virus shows was not the case. This has nothing to do with the corona virus strains we are currently dealing with, and more importantly, there has never been any credible research proving that Covid was made in a lab. The only paper th…

This novel virus started spreading pretty close to a lab that studies viruses. I think that counts as "actual evidence" that it came out of a lab. Of course, evidence != proof. And even if it did come from the lab, that in itself does not imply malice.

That is not evidence! It is at best a coincidence. An even stronger coincidence would be that this lab had a genotypically similar virus stored prior to its detection. But even that is not evidence of release; it is just a stronger hypothesis.

If I was near a bank robbery at the time of occurrence, it does not count as evidence that I did it. Not even if I have a history of robbing banks. It must be combined with other, stronger evidence (I was inside the bank, my fingerprints were there, I was caught on camera) to build a case.

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