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NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

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Re: NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

#71

Post by cpeterso »

cloudkj wrote: post #68
winestock wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we, here on Earth, are not unique precious snowflakes, then that makes the Fermi Paradox even more paradoxical.

And along those same lines, adds more weight to the implications of the Great Filter argument. That is, if the early steps in the path to intelligent life are really not that unlikely, then the later steps to advanced intelligent life are more unlikely.

Or, as Carl Sagan often suggested, intelligent life is likely to destroy itself, perhaps if a civilization's technological progress outpaces its ethical capacity.

Re: NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

#72

Post by Dove »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #58
ams6110 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really your biggest fear? Or is that just a figure of speech. I'm genuinely curious, as while I think this "answer" might be intellectually satisfying to some degree, I see it as making little difference in practical matters. I also think it's an answer that will never come. I don't see any inconsistency between a universe created by God and any scientific observations we make within that creation.

I see it as making little difference in practical matters It changes everything. It is like being 30 years old and finding you were adopted. You want to know where you come from. Edit: But besides what you and I think, what will it mean to the world if religion was "proven" to be man-made, as well as the idea of a Higher Power.

what will it mean to the world if religion was "proven" to be man-made

A successful and complete theory of the origin of life wouldn't do that. Not every religion claims seriously that God directly created life. To my knowledge, it's really only a serious problem for people who live in the Religion:Christian/Protestant/Evangelical/Fundamentalist folder, which is really not a big fraction of the people on the drive.

For example, I am Evangelical, and I wouldn't be bothered by either the success or failure of a scientific theory of the origin of life. Miracles are a part of my worldview, as are machines. I know that God created life, but whether he used a miracle or a machine, I don't know. I have seen him use one or the other at different times, so I would consider either an acceptable explanation. Now, I'm kind of interested as to what happened, but it doesn't affect my doctrine much either way.

Re: NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

#73

Post by jcfrei »

winestock wrote: post #63
bh42222 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means that the components of life are a "naturally" occurring things, which appear all over the universe, and do not require life to produce them. This in turn implies that life, not just any life, but carbon based, DNA using life, could be more common in the universe then previously thought. And this implies that we here on Earth are even less of an unique snowflake then we thought.

If we, here on Earth, are not unique precious snowflakes, then that makes the Fermi Paradox even more paradoxical.

Another possible explanation against the fermi paradox could be that interstellar communication, let alone travel is much more unlikely to occur even among highly advanced civilizations. maybe just travelling beyond our solar system might remain uneconomical for a long time.

Re: NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

#74

Post by michaeldhopkins »

ryandvm wrote: post #26
torstesu wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not agree that it is completely irrelevant when including the possibilities of life at a higher intellectual level. It would still put religion in a difficult position; if God created humans, he must have created aliens. At what intellectual level would you set the barrier? Must it demonstrate empathy? Love? And who would decide? What gives a human the right, as it clearly is the guy in the sky that is the gatek…

I don't think finding evidence of ETI would change much of anything. Sure, an agnostic might be put into a further tailspin, but so what? Most of the world's faithful have already demonstrated the enviable ability to suspend any desire to investigate the mechanics of their belief system. What difference will it matter that aliens were thrown into the equation?

Since you seem like a science-minded man, I'll point out that every Christian in this thread has said nothing like what you said. Perhaps you should revise your model.

Re: NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

#75

Post by jarin »

jcfrei wrote: post #73
winestock wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we, here on Earth, are not unique precious snowflakes, then that makes the Fermi Paradox even more paradoxical.

Another possible explanation against the fermi paradox could be that interstellar communication, let alone travel is much more unlikely to occur even among highly advanced civilizations. maybe just travelling beyond our solar system might remain uneconomical for a long time.

Accelerando by Charles Stross (available for free here: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/fiction/accelera...) has a great take on the whole idea (and is just a great novel for futurists in general).

Its conjecture is that physical travel to other civilizations is so expensive, and light-speed communications are so slow and inefficient, that the only way highly advanced civilizations communicate is by digitizing their consciousnesses and transmitting those, to be run in simulations on the receiving end. However, since you wouldn't want to transmit a copy of your own consciousness to an alien only to have it tortured or worse (even in a simulation), there are very extensive negotiations around trust involved before full contact with other civilizations is established.

Re: NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

#76

Post by felipemnoa »

jeffool wrote: post #56
rokhayakebe wrote: post #10

My biggest fear is dying before mankind finds the definite scientific answer to death and our origin/s. We seem to be so near (~ one century away).

I think my biggest lament will be dying before we get off this rock and/or contact other intelligent life. But I think we're very far off from that.

Mine would be not seeing what technological improvements we will come up next in the next century.

Re: NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

#77

Post by jarin »

felipemnoa wrote: post #76
jeffool wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think my biggest lament will be dying before we get off this rock and/or contact other intelligent life. But I think we're very far off from that.

Mine would be not seeing what technological improvements we will come up next in the next century.

I think this is probably directly or indirectly responsible for the recent health and longevity kick people have been on in the Bay area. Many people in their 20s-40s are right at the age where we can see some of the amazing things on the horizon, but it's uncertain whether we'll live long enough to see them. If I could live to 120 instead of 80-90, it greatly increases the odds that I'll live to see things like neural interfaces and things like that.

Re: NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

#78

Post by joshuacc »

rorrr wrote: post #21
torstesu wrote: post #8

I have always been curious as to how religion will tackle proof of alien life. Do aliens get to go to heaven?

They will find evidence of aliens in their religious texts. Always post factum.

The idea of non-terrestrial intelligences has been part of Judeo-Christian belief for thousands of years. Angels are generally considered both non-physical and non-terrestrial. But theologians as orthodox as Thomas Aquinas have also considered belief in non-terrestrial yet physical intelligences to be theologically acceptable[1].

[1] http://vox-nova.com/2009/10/10/on-multiple-worlds-and-multip...

Re: NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

#79

Post by alanh »

calebmpeterson wrote: post #62

While NASA's discovery of nucleobases as opposed to amino acids is certainly interesting, there's a long way between "hey, nucleobases on an asteroid," and "wow, the entire genome of a living creature." There's a big jump in complexity, structure, and organization between organic chemistry and the multi-trillion cell organism we call homosapien. The comparison in complexity is the rough equivalent of finding a few MO…

Why on earth would you compare these to the human genome, instead of the smallest archeobacteria? Evolution adds complexity over time, we know this, we just need something to replicate first.

A better analogy than the Linux kernel might be a quine.

Re: NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

#80

Post by jarin »

ori_b wrote: post #69
winestock wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we, here on Earth, are not unique precious snowflakes, then that makes the Fermi Paradox even more paradoxical.

I'd be extremely surprised if there was very little life on other planets. I'd also be extremely surprised if we could recognize it as life at a glance -- my guess is that it's so likely to be so completely different from us that that even knowing what to look for is going to be hard. Life is probably not that rare. Familiar life probably is.

I think maybe on a macro level, but microbial life seems likely to be pretty similar to ours.

Even on a macro scale though, I imagine you'd probably see some of the same themes (assuming an Earth-like planet): photosynthesis, bilateral symmetry, hemoglobin- or hemocyanin-based blood, etc.

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