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200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

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Re: 200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

#101
post #5

Found at 14,000ft on the Tibetan Plateau. Very likely altitude adapted denisovans, whose genetic adaptations to living in such low oxygen are still present in modern day Tibetans. Really incredible.

Would have been closer to 10000 feet back then but incredible nonetheless.

Re: 200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

#102
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really amazing. I find this sort of thing absolutely haunting. It's a vivid reminder that there is nothing particularly special about this moment in time: it's only special to us because we're living it. But their present moment was no less vital and immediate and real to them as this moment is to us. And yet, it happened so incredibly long ago! I had the same feeling when I encountered a beautiful statue of a woman…

I disagree, there is something special about this moment in time. We're in an insane inflection point of human development. For millions of years things stayed roughly the same. It's really only in the last 10,000 years that stuff has really kicked off, and the last 300 where human development has gone absolutely crazy. There's several existential threats that might destroy civilization over the next few hundred year…

Even if it were true that societies today are more complex, why is that inherently more special than a time in the past when life was simple? How come so many people today long for a much simpler life, like in the past, as if the past was special? The point is, special is highly subjective and you really should be doubting your own notions of it.

In any case, I think that the original commenter really referred to how there’s nothing so drastically different about the experience of being human in the present and in the past.

Re: 200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it be that in the distant future if you at human history (or even the history of life on Earth) from far enough away to smooth out the little bumps, it turns out that we 20th and 21st century humans are in fact in a pretty unremarkable point along an exponential curve?

Only if we populate the galaxy. Which isn't that hard if we try. But even then we lived at the origin of the galactic species. Pretty special. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_argument

Populating the galaxy isn't that hard? Care to explain?

Re: 200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

#104

Any chance they could recover some DNA?

> A study of DNA extracted from the leg bones of extinct moa birds in New Zealand found that the half-life of DNA is 521 years. [1]

So at most ~5.6% of DNA could have survived. It would be interesting if researchers would be able to detect a fraction of that amount, but it seems implausible.

[1] https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/how-long-does-dn... | https://archive.is/S39fv

Re: 200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

#106
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really amazing. I find this sort of thing absolutely haunting. It's a vivid reminder that there is nothing particularly special about this moment in time: it's only special to us because we're living it. But their present moment was no less vital and immediate and real to them as this moment is to us. And yet, it happened so incredibly long ago! I had the same feeling when I encountered a beautiful statue of a woman…

I disagree, there is something special about this moment in time. We're in an insane inflection point of human development. For millions of years things stayed roughly the same. It's really only in the last 10,000 years that stuff has really kicked off, and the last 300 where human development has gone absolutely crazy. There's several existential threats that might destroy civilization over the next few hundred year…

Earth has been around at least for billions of years. Our modern existence is only of about few hundred years. It'd be over estimating ourselves to think that a civilization like us never existed on Earth let alone other planets. As the technology keeps on miniaturizing, there'll be a point at which the verbose existence of technology would largely be no longer there. In that state, if the civilization is reset due to some cosmic incident, a tech civilization like us in far future will think about themselves in the same way. We do read about Atlantis like legend and consider them a myth similarly, we'd be a myth for such future civilization.

Re: 200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, there is something special about this moment in time. We're in an insane inflection point of human development. For millions of years things stayed roughly the same. It's really only in the last 10,000 years that stuff has really kicked off, and the last 300 where human development has gone absolutely crazy. There's several existential threats that might destroy civilization over the next few hundred year…

> I disagree, there is something special about this moment in time. Your ancestors all felt the same way. So will your children.

i always come back to the fact that "time travel" wasn't a notion until relatively recently; simply by the fact that so little changed on a centuries-long scale, and traveling through time would essentially place you in precisely the same spot, with the same set of experiences and technologies.

presently, we've the opposite problem: technology advances so quickly it's difficult / near impossible to accurately predict life in five hundred years. (making time travel VERY COMPELLING!)

Re: 200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

#108
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't really matter what my ancestors felt, it's blatently obvious that there's more going on right now, and faster than 10,000 years ago. Back then, you'd be lucky to see a single revolutionary invention in a lifetime. Now we're seeing them every decade, if not annually. I don't disagree that my descendents will be justified in feeling the same way, as long as the exponential curve keeps on going and civilizati…

> it's blatently obvious that there's more going on right now... Blatantly obvious ? Not to me. I'm a technologist (e.g. wrote a bunch of code the results of which you use every day) with a degree in history and in many ways ancient Greece seems more vital than today.

We’ve legit left the planet and put people on the moon. The past hundred years has absolutely been something special in the history of the human race

Re: 200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

#109
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really amazing. I find this sort of thing absolutely haunting. It's a vivid reminder that there is nothing particularly special about this moment in time: it's only special to us because we're living it. But their present moment was no less vital and immediate and real to them as this moment is to us. And yet, it happened so incredibly long ago! I had the same feeling when I encountered a beautiful statue of a woman…

I disagree, there is something special about this moment in time. We're in an insane inflection point of human development. For millions of years things stayed roughly the same. It's really only in the last 10,000 years that stuff has really kicked off, and the last 300 where human development has gone absolutely crazy. There's several existential threats that might destroy civilization over the next few hundred year…

Another interesting data point I'd like to share here is that of multiple stories found mentioned in ancient Hindu texts called puranas (which means historic). These stories talk about humans traveling to far away planets (lokas) wherein the wheel of time moves much slower than on Earth and thus is an indication of ancient Hindu knowledge of the phenomenon of time dilation. For instance, consider this story of King Kakudmi and his daughter [0]:

> Kakudmi's daughter Revati was so beautiful and so accomplished that when she reached a marriageable age, Kakudmi, thinking no one upon earth was worthy of her, went to the Creator himself, Lord Brahma, to seek his advice about a suitable husband for his daughter. When they arrived, Brahma was listening to a musical performance by the Gandharvas, so they waited patiently until the performance was finished. Then, Kakudmi bowed humbly, made his request and presented his shortlist of candidates. Brahma laughed loudly and explained that time runs differently on different planes of existence, and that during the short time they had waited in Brahma-loka to see him, 27 chatur-yugas (a cycle of four yugas, totalling 108 yugas) had passed on earth. Brahma said to Kakudmi, "O King, all those whom you may have decided within the core of your heart to accept as your son-in-law has died in the course of time. Twenty-seven chatur-yugas have already passed. Those upon whom you may have already decided are now gone, and so are their sons, grandsons and other descendants. You cannot even hear about their names.[2] You must therefore bestow this virgin gem (i.e. Revati) upon some other husband, for you are now alone, and your friends, your ministers, servants, wives, kinsmen, armies, and treasures, have long since been swept away by the hand of time."[3]King Kakudmi was overcome with astonishment and alarm at hearing this news.[3] However, Brahma comforted him and added that Vishnu, the preserver, was currently incarnate on earth in the forms of Krishna and Balarama, and he recommended Balarama as a worthy husband for Revati.Kakudmi and Revati then returned to earth which they regarded as having left only just a short while ago. They were shocked by the changes that had taken place. Not only had the landscape and environment changed, but over the intervening 27 chatur-yugas, in the cycles of human spiritual and cultural evolution, mankind was at a lower level of development than in their own time (see Ages of Man). The Bhagavata Purana describes that they found the race of men had become "dwindled in stature, reduced in vigour, and enfeebled in intellect."The daughter and father found Balarama and proposed the marriage which was accepted. The marriage was then duly celebrated.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakudmi

Re: 200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, there is something special about this moment in time. We're in an insane inflection point of human development. For millions of years things stayed roughly the same. It's really only in the last 10,000 years that stuff has really kicked off, and the last 300 where human development has gone absolutely crazy. There's several existential threats that might destroy civilization over the next few hundred year…

Earth has been around at least for billions of years. Our modern existence is only of about few hundred years. It'd be over estimating ourselves to think that a civilization like us never existed on Earth let alone other planets. As the technology keeps on miniaturizing, there'll be a point at which the verbose existence of technology would largely be no longer there. In that state, if the civilization is reset due t…

I am rereading a novel from French author René Barjavel: “the ice people” on this exact theme. Scientists in the South Pole discover an ancient civilization 900k years old. Its also fun because he anticipates the near future quite accurately from 1968 when he wrote it. Well worth a read. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ice_People_(Barjavel_nov...
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