I Am Not Satoshi Nakamoto • Hacker News Board

Re: I Am Not Satoshi Nakamoto

#61

Post by worrycue » Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 2:37 AM UTC

tyre wrote: post #14

spurgu wrote: post #9

Quickly skimming through the Wired piece, am I weird for not being that uncomfortable with companies like Coinbase managing your crypto? Or Namebase.io managing Handshake domains? Most people don't care about self-hosting/self-managing their stuff and just want something that works and is easy to use. With both of these (Bitcoin & HNS) you can still have 100% control over it if you choose to. So what if 90% of people…

This is the whole thing with crypto. The only benefits thus far that have come to widespread fruition are illicit purchases and speculation. For it to be broadly accepted, it has to lose the rest. Anonymity? People are unsurprisingly very in favor of KYC so we can apply anti–money laundering and terrorism laws. For it to be trusted you have to insure deposits. Those fly-by-night exchanges going poof with everyone's c…

Another thing I feel would be a flaw is the inability to increase and decrease the money supply - something central banks often do with fiat money to stimulate the economy.

Most crypto currency seem proud even that they can only deflate … which is the worst thing for a currency since it will just result in hoarding and ever decreasing economic activity (AKA deflationary spiral) - at the end of the day, economic activity is what we want, it’s what put food on supermarket shelves, we can’t eat money.

Re: I Am Not Satoshi Nakamoto

#62

Post by Sebb767 » Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 2:38 AM UTC

golemotron wrote: post #26

spurgu wrote: post #9

Quickly skimming through the Wired piece, am I weird for not being that uncomfortable with companies like Coinbase managing your crypto? Or Namebase.io managing Handshake domains? Most people don't care about self-hosting/self-managing their stuff and just want something that works and is easy to use. With both of these (Bitcoin & HNS) you can still have 100% control over it if you choose to. So what if 90% of people…

> am I weird for not being that uncomfortable with companies like Coinbase managing your crypto? It's almost like using git, a decentralized version control system, through GitHub.

It's actually completely different. Your code can co-exist on GitHub and your PC, which coins (mostly) can not [0]. Git's decentralization is also just a side feature, most people use it for managing versions and collaborating.

On the coin side, though, decentralization is the main selling point. When you manage your coins via regulated exchange your really don't have much more than stocks with some added payment functionality. The threat scenario is completely different.

[0] Technically, your code could still be stolen from GitHub, but it won't be a total loss like coins would be.

Re: I Am Not Satoshi Nakamoto

#63

Post by seibelj » Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 2:40 AM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #60

Dwolb wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno I’m an over-halfway believer in crypto. The other day I wanted to invest in a token. So I transferred ETH out of Coinbase to MetaMask wallet, then traded my ETH for the token. Each transaction took about 30sec and cost ~$25. That sounds like a lot! Until you realize ETH has been around only 8 years and the transaction is entirely irreversible by an enterprising (invasive? dictatorial?) third party. To me it’s…

irreversibility is mostly a negative for anyone who is interested in getting a scam/fraudulent charge taken back. What happens when you purchase an item from some web shop with ETH and it never arrives?

This is actually an argument I totally disagree with. Businesses are long-lived, have reputations to maintain, and need to build trust. They have every incentive possible to treat their customers right, and issue refunds on valid issues. It is the customers that are sketchy and usually one-offs, and thus use stolen credit cards to burn the business with chargebacks. Businesses lose a huge amount to fraudulent payments.

I would rather let businesses decide whether to choose payment options that allow chargebacks or not, and then customers can choose which businesses to support. The method of payment becomes one factor in shopping decisions. Businesses that eliminate chargeback risk are ultimately more competitive and can pass savings onto consumers. The whole chargeback thing is a ridiculous byproduct of our antiquated payment rails.

Re: I Am Not Satoshi Nakamoto

#64

Post by ALittleLight » Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 2:41 AM UTC

Dwolb wrote: post #42

tyre wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the whole thing with crypto. The only benefits thus far that have come to widespread fruition are illicit purchases and speculation. For it to be broadly accepted, it has to lose the rest. Anonymity? People are unsurprisingly very in favor of KYC so we can apply anti–money laundering and terrorism laws. For it to be trusted you have to insure deposits. Those fly-by-night exchanges going poof with everyone's c…

I dunno I’m an over-halfway believer in crypto. The other day I wanted to invest in a token. So I transferred ETH out of Coinbase to MetaMask wallet, then traded my ETH for the token. Each transaction took about 30sec and cost ~$25. That sounds like a lot! Until you realize ETH has been around only 8 years and the transaction is entirely irreversible by an enterprising (invasive? dictatorial?) third party. To me it’s…

Isn't that really bad though? I paid for a VPS with my credit card recently. The transaction appeared to complete instantly. No 25 dollar transaction fee, no multiple hops through different software interfaces, just click and done. If it turned out the VPS company was a scam, I could've made a single phone call and reversed the charge saving my money.

Crypto is slower, more expensive, and less safe. True, it's only eight years old, but the important thing is it's much worse than current solutions - at least on the dimensions that I think most people care about. Plus, it's not like online credit cards are that much older.

Re: I Am Not Satoshi Nakamoto

#65

Post by Sebb767 » Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 2:41 AM UTC

SkyMarshal wrote: post #50

> For the record, I am not Satoshi Nakamoto. I suppose I could have invented the bitcoin protocols... That's not a given. Nick Szabo provides a good explanation [1] of the state of things when Bitcoin was invented, and why very few people were capable of it then: "The overlap between cryptographic experts and libertarians who might sympathize with such a "gold bug" idea is already rather small, since most cryptograph…

I think the could is meant as "technically, it would have been in my skillset to create something akin to this". It's clear that either motivation and/or ideas were missing, otherwise we would be crediting him for inventing bitcoin ;)

Re: I Am Not Satoshi Nakamoto

#66

Post by emtel » Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 2:41 AM UTC

na85 wrote: post #24

tyre wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the whole thing with crypto. The only benefits thus far that have come to widespread fruition are illicit purchases and speculation. For it to be broadly accepted, it has to lose the rest. Anonymity? People are unsurprisingly very in favor of KYC so we can apply anti–money laundering and terrorism laws. For it to be trusted you have to insure deposits. Those fly-by-night exchanges going poof with everyone's c…

>For it to be used as regular currency you have to have price stability. No one wants to go to the grocery store and find out that they lost 10% of their budget on the walk over. Not only that but Bitcoin or whatever shitcoin becomes the next big thing need to scale up the network's ability to handle transactions. Payment processors like Visa handle something like 400x more transactions per unit time than Bitcoin.

This is apples to oranges. A Bitcoin transaction is a settlement, much more akin to fed wire than visa. Visa transactions are not settlements.

Re: I Am Not Satoshi Nakamoto

#67

Post by toolz » Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 2:44 AM UTC

tyre wrote: post #14

spurgu wrote: post #9

Quickly skimming through the Wired piece, am I weird for not being that uncomfortable with companies like Coinbase managing your crypto? Or Namebase.io managing Handshake domains? Most people don't care about self-hosting/self-managing their stuff and just want something that works and is easy to use. With both of these (Bitcoin & HNS) you can still have 100% control over it if you choose to. So what if 90% of people…

This is the whole thing with crypto. The only benefits thus far that have come to widespread fruition are illicit purchases and speculation. For it to be broadly accepted, it has to lose the rest. Anonymity? People are unsurprisingly very in favor of KYC so we can apply anti–money laundering and terrorism laws. For it to be trusted you have to insure deposits. Those fly-by-night exchanges going poof with everyone's c…

well over 90% of illicit purchases are done in fiat and you've really not been paying attention if you think those are the only benefits of crypto.

There's an entire country that uses crypto as legal tender. I could stop there, but there's more.

Fees are lower than credit cards charge, there are businesses saving money by utilizing crypto.

Sending money overseas is cheaper and more accessible with crypto.

The list goes on. I'm not sure how you've arrived at your position, but it is not an educated position.

Re: I Am Not Satoshi Nakamoto

#68

Post by lsiq » Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 2:45 AM UTC

tyre wrote: post #14

spurgu wrote: post #9

Quickly skimming through the Wired piece, am I weird for not being that uncomfortable with companies like Coinbase managing your crypto? Or Namebase.io managing Handshake domains? Most people don't care about self-hosting/self-managing their stuff and just want something that works and is easy to use. With both of these (Bitcoin & HNS) you can still have 100% control over it if you choose to. So what if 90% of people…

This is the whole thing with crypto. The only benefits thus far that have come to widespread fruition are illicit purchases and speculation. For it to be broadly accepted, it has to lose the rest. Anonymity? People are unsurprisingly very in favor of KYC so we can apply anti–money laundering and terrorism laws. For it to be trusted you have to insure deposits. Those fly-by-night exchanges going poof with everyone's c…

The likes of Paypal locks your funds without explanation or appeal.

And the likes of HSBC launder money with impunity. (BUT BUT KYC/AML!)

But hey, let's continue trusting self interested people who don't care about you to "do the right thing" and protect your funds.

Re: I Am Not Satoshi Nakamoto

#69

Post by ashtonkem » Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 2:47 AM UTC

spurgu wrote: post #10

pope_meat wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fixed supply that always grows in value doesn't encourage investment, just "hodl". And I ain't an economist, but hoarding wealth for the sake of hoarding wealth isn't good for society. If you have to invent another coin to encourage investment/spending rather than hoarding...well why not use that coin. I'm not entirely anti-crypto, I think Monero is neat.

I've always seen this as a weird argument. Most people live paycheck to paycheck and don't have the option to hold even if they wanted to. And those that have extra income will invest it in whatever gains them interest, with the explicit intent of not spending those funds in the short term. I don't see why crypto's deflationary properties would play any practical role at all. Well except that you could actually just…

You know, this is actually a studied phenomenon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation#Deflationary_spiral

Re: I Am Not Satoshi Nakamoto

#70

Post by syshum » Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 2:48 AM UTC

tyre wrote: post #14

spurgu wrote: post #9

Quickly skimming through the Wired piece, am I weird for not being that uncomfortable with companies like Coinbase managing your crypto? Or Namebase.io managing Handshake domains? Most people don't care about self-hosting/self-managing their stuff and just want something that works and is easy to use. With both of these (Bitcoin & HNS) you can still have 100% control over it if you choose to. So what if 90% of people…

This is the whole thing with crypto. The only benefits thus far that have come to widespread fruition are illicit purchases and speculation. For it to be broadly accepted, it has to lose the rest. Anonymity? People are unsurprisingly very in favor of KYC so we can apply anti–money laundering and terrorism laws. For it to be trusted you have to insure deposits. Those fly-by-night exchanges going poof with everyone's c…

>>I have never met a human being who is anti–FDIC (what insures bank deposits in the US up to $250k).

you have met one now. I am anti-FDIC, and really anti-banking in general, as well as anti-KYC laws, and anti-anti money laundering laws...

I am very surprised that people are "very in favor" of KYC laws, which if true highlights the ignorance the people have about how these laws are used by government to abuse normal people. Take a gander over to the Institute for Justice who has any number of cases linked to these and other similar laws.

The big bad "terrorism" has replaced the 70's and 80's big bad of "Drug King Pins" to justify all manner of abuse by government to go over small businesses, and ordinary people all in the name of stopping some >

>>For it to be used as regular currency you have to have price stability. No one wants to go to the grocery store and find out that they lost 10% of their budget on the walk over.

Maybe not on the walk over, and bitcoin is not really that unstable either. This idea that fiat money, and the USD in particular is stable is really laughable. This year especially where I have seen my average weekly grocery bill increase by about 20%, and I am buying the same things in the same QTY...

But I forgot the Fed says this is not the inflation I am looking for and just hand-waves it away... so it is all good. No issues at all with Fiat money....