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200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

gizmodo.com

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Re: 200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

#51

Post by Leherenn »

loonster wrote: post #11
themgt wrote: post #5

Found at 14,000ft on the Tibetan Plateau. Very likely altitude adapted denisovans, whose genetic adaptations to living in such low oxygen are still present in modern day Tibetans. Really incredible.

I wonder how high it was 200k years ago. Edit: another comment mentions the mountains were formed 40-50 million years ago. So I would presume roughly the same height.

I don't have an answer, but I would say not necessarily the same height. Mountains do not grow all at once or at a constant rate. For instance, there are some parts of the Himalayas that are currently growing at 1-2 cm/y. It is thus not impossible that this place was several hundred meters lower 200k years ago.

Re: 200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

#52

Post by willcipriano »

bspammer wrote: post #38
adriand wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really amazing. I find this sort of thing absolutely haunting. It's a vivid reminder that there is nothing particularly special about this moment in time: it's only special to us because we're living it. But their present moment was no less vital and immediate and real to them as this moment is to us. And yet, it happened so incredibly long ago! I had the same feeling when I encountered a beautiful statue of a woman…

I disagree, there is something special about this moment in time. We're in an insane inflection point of human development. For millions of years things stayed roughly the same. It's really only in the last 10,000 years that stuff has really kicked off, and the last 300 where human development has gone absolutely crazy. There's several existential threats that might destroy civilization over the next few hundred year…

> I disagree, there is something special about this moment in time.

Your ancestors all felt the same way. So will your children.

Re: 200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

#53

Post by prescriptivist »

cletus wrote: post #48
themgt wrote: post #5

Found at 14,000ft on the Tibetan Plateau. Very likely altitude adapted denisovans, whose genetic adaptations to living in such low oxygen are still present in modern day Tibetans. Really incredible.

What was the evolutionary advantage that being able to live at high altitudes 200,000 years ago gave you? There really weren't that many people around so finding land with available food and water doesn't seem like it would be that much of an issue. One possible argument is that such people would transit high altitudes going between hunting grounds (for example) but is this really enough pressure to produce a genetic…

Just spitballing but maybe at that altitude humans tipped some sort of scale where they were more efficient predators of whatever was up there but below that altitude the larger pleistocene megafauna of the time represented a higher predation risk to humans themselves or there was less post kill (scavenger) competition.

Re: 200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

#54

Post by ugh123 »

bspammer wrote: post #38
adriand wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really amazing. I find this sort of thing absolutely haunting. It's a vivid reminder that there is nothing particularly special about this moment in time: it's only special to us because we're living it. But their present moment was no less vital and immediate and real to them as this moment is to us. And yet, it happened so incredibly long ago! I had the same feeling when I encountered a beautiful statue of a woman…

I disagree, there is something special about this moment in time. We're in an insane inflection point of human development. For millions of years things stayed roughly the same. It's really only in the last 10,000 years that stuff has really kicked off, and the last 300 where human development has gone absolutely crazy. There's several existential threats that might destroy civilization over the next few hundred year…

I think you could say that about the industrial revolution. However, the events in the past 20 years seem to indicate humanity is moving backwards

>There's a very good chance we're living the most comfortable lives that any creature on this planet will ever experience, past and future. It's truly mindblowing how lucky we are.

The disparity between the haves and the have-nots in this moment in time would truly bewilder anyone in ancient history if they could see whats happening today. There are likely more people living in poverty today than there were 200 years ago, in absolute numbers - not percentage.

Re: 200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

#55

Post by bspammer »

willcipriano wrote: post #52
bspammer wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, there is something special about this moment in time. We're in an insane inflection point of human development. For millions of years things stayed roughly the same. It's really only in the last 10,000 years that stuff has really kicked off, and the last 300 where human development has gone absolutely crazy. There's several existential threats that might destroy civilization over the next few hundred year…

> I disagree, there is something special about this moment in time. Your ancestors all felt the same way. So will your children.

It doesn't really matter what my ancestors felt, it's blatently obvious that there's more going on right now, and faster than 10,000 years ago. Back then, you'd be lucky to see a single revolutionary invention in a lifetime. Now we're seeing them every decade, if not annually.

I don't disagree that my descendents will be justified in feeling the same way, as long as the exponential curve keeps on going and civilization doesn't end.

Re: 200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

#56

Post by yostrovs »

ugh123 wrote: post #54
bspammer wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, there is something special about this moment in time. We're in an insane inflection point of human development. For millions of years things stayed roughly the same. It's really only in the last 10,000 years that stuff has really kicked off, and the last 300 where human development has gone absolutely crazy. There's several existential threats that might destroy civilization over the next few hundred year…

I think you could say that about the industrial revolution. However, the events in the past 20 years seem to indicate humanity is moving backwards >There's a very good chance we're living the most comfortable lives that any creature on this planet will ever experience, past and future. It's truly mindblowing how lucky we are. The disparity between the haves and the have-nots in this moment in time would truly bewilde…

In percentage, poverty is probably at its lowest in history.

Re: 200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

#57

Post by tshaddox »

bspammer wrote: post #38
adriand wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really amazing. I find this sort of thing absolutely haunting. It's a vivid reminder that there is nothing particularly special about this moment in time: it's only special to us because we're living it. But their present moment was no less vital and immediate and real to them as this moment is to us. And yet, it happened so incredibly long ago! I had the same feeling when I encountered a beautiful statue of a woman…

I disagree, there is something special about this moment in time. We're in an insane inflection point of human development. For millions of years things stayed roughly the same. It's really only in the last 10,000 years that stuff has really kicked off, and the last 300 where human development has gone absolutely crazy. There's several existential threats that might destroy civilization over the next few hundred year…

Could it be that in the distant future if you at human history (or even the history of life on Earth) from far enough away to smooth out the little bumps, it turns out that we 20th and 21st century humans are in fact in a pretty unremarkable point along an exponential curve?

Re: 200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

#58

Post by unknownOrigin »

mysecretaccount wrote: post #35

This is covered in the article, but: the term art is quite generous here. These may not even have been imprinted intentionally. Fascinating nonetheless.

It doesn't dispute that they were made intentionally - in fact, it says the opposite. (These are carefully made so they don't overlap and they were not produced by locomotion.)

If this is "art" art... is up to everyone to interpret for themselves.

But then again, today you can give yourself a paint enema, squirt it from your asshole all over a canvas and some people will call it art.

Re: 200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

#59

Post by katzgrau »

tshaddox wrote: post #57
bspammer wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, there is something special about this moment in time. We're in an insane inflection point of human development. For millions of years things stayed roughly the same. It's really only in the last 10,000 years that stuff has really kicked off, and the last 300 where human development has gone absolutely crazy. There's several existential threats that might destroy civilization over the next few hundred year…

Could it be that in the distant future if you at human history (or even the history of life on Earth) from far enough away to smooth out the little bumps, it turns out that we 20th and 21st century humans are in fact in a pretty unremarkable point along an exponential curve?

Def, as far as we know, we're just a little slope upward.

And I'm not sure what the Y axis is even measuring.

Re: 200k-year-old hand art found near a Tibetan hot spring

#60

Post by bspammer »

tshaddox wrote: post #57
bspammer wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, there is something special about this moment in time. We're in an insane inflection point of human development. For millions of years things stayed roughly the same. It's really only in the last 10,000 years that stuff has really kicked off, and the last 300 where human development has gone absolutely crazy. There's several existential threats that might destroy civilization over the next few hundred year…

Could it be that in the distant future if you at human history (or even the history of life on Earth) from far enough away to smooth out the little bumps, it turns out that we 20th and 21st century humans are in fact in a pretty unremarkable point along an exponential curve?

If that's true (and I hope it is, because it means things go very well for humanity), we're still one of the first generations to see major change _within_ our short lives. For millions of years, technology and tools stayed roughly the same from generation to generation. I'm 25, and the technological progress since I was born is mind-blowing.
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