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Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

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Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#421

Post by selfhoster11 »

sandGorgon wrote: post #14
kelnos wrote: post #8

The issue is that Windows doesn't go into S3 sleep when you close the lid; it goes into a weird not-really-asleep state for... some reason that I don't agree with[0]. I guess that state is "hot" enough that you could damage the laptop by putting it in a bag while in that state. Fortunately I've been running Linux on my XPS 13, which I have put into a bag hundreds of times (maybe even over a thousand) while suspended.…

Oh wow. i did NOT know that. Even worse... > Switching between S3 and Modern Standby cannot be done by changing a setting in the BIOS. Switching the power model is not supported in Windows without a complete OS re-install. and on Reddit > Warning: if your laptop is newer than 2019, there is a high chance, your OEM removed any S3 code from the bios, and your laptop will crash entering S3 and you have to force hold pow…

> Switching the power model is not supported in Windows without a complete OS re-install

That's absolutely insane.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#422

Post by IIsi50MHz »

vesinisa wrote: post #23
qwerty456127 wrote: post #12

> With regards to transporting your laptop, you must first turn the laptop OFF This has been a problem for already quite long. I remember my very old laptop overheating if being put in the backpack in Standby mode. Nowadays I in fact don't just turn laptops Off the default way. I go and disable the "fast start up" (Control Panel - Power Options - Choose what the power buttons do) to make sure the computer gets turnt…

This is so infuriating, because this problem has already been solved once. It's called "Hibernation", and was added in Windows 95. This should write your MEM image to disk, power the laptop completely off and allow later restoring where you left when powering your laptop back on. But laptop manufacturers (including Apple) thought it somehow smart to remove true hibernation, and replace it with some botched "deep slee…

For people who had working hibernation, it may seem so.

For support staff, and for hardware & OS vendors, dealing with customers complaining about hibernation or S3 sleep not working those states were so infuriating and definitely NOT a solved problem.

Example failure modes: — Doesn't wake when told. — Immediately wakes instead of staying in low power state. — Performs a cold boot when trying to wake. — OS disables desired state with no explanation. — OS disables desired state which has worked perfectly on that machine for month/years, and OS claims it has been disabled because it is not compatible.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#423

Post by fsckboy »

superjan wrote: post #411
algismo wrote: post #403

I own XPS 13 9380 with Windows 10. Same mess with the sleep. I have to carry the laptop in the bag when commuting. You never know what it is doing when lid is closed. There is no lights on the laptop to indicate its state so I just usually put it to my ear and listen until the fan goes off after closing the lid. Then it is semi safe to put it into the bag. Feels like stone age. Things are just getting worse with Wind…

I absolutely agree that microsoft could and should make this work better. But the pragmatic workaround is the setting to force hibernation when you close the lid. You can resume from SSD in 10 seconds. No middle of the night wakeups. Much improved battery life.

TFA says that hibernation is problematic for putting your computer into your bag. I understand what you mean by hibernation, and while it should not cause a problem... that's what the link says

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#424

Post by nogridbag »

kelnos wrote: post #8

The issue is that Windows doesn't go into S3 sleep when you close the lid; it goes into a weird not-really-asleep state for... some reason that I don't agree with[0]. I guess that state is "hot" enough that you could damage the laptop by putting it in a bag while in that state. Fortunately I've been running Linux on my XPS 13, which I have put into a bag hundreds of times (maybe even over a thousand) while suspended.…

I purchased one of those 1st gen Windows on ARM laptops (HP Envy) specifically for the "instant on" / modern standby feature. It worked perfectly, just like a smartphone, until I received a major Windows update. Now it wakes slowly ruining the only good thing about that device. I've now been burned twice in a row by MS and will likely not purchase another product from them again.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#425

Post by Dayshine »

superjan wrote: post #411
algismo wrote: post #403

I own XPS 13 9380 with Windows 10. Same mess with the sleep. I have to carry the laptop in the bag when commuting. You never know what it is doing when lid is closed. There is no lights on the laptop to indicate its state so I just usually put it to my ear and listen until the fan goes off after closing the lid. Then it is semi safe to put it into the bag. Feels like stone age. Things are just getting worse with Wind…

I absolutely agree that microsoft could and should make this work better. But the pragmatic workaround is the setting to force hibernation when you close the lid. You can resume from SSD in 10 seconds. No middle of the night wakeups. Much improved battery life.

My dell xps hibernation doesn't work.

20% of the time it works.

40% of the time it won't wake and I have to kill it (screen stays dark even though keyboard indicates it is awake)

30% of the time it just immediately wakes

10% of the time it wakes at like 2am and power cycles my monitor every 30 seconds waking me up

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#426

Post by icelancer »

ngokevin wrote: post #395
filmgirlcw wrote: post #387

This is one of the main reasons I just returned my XPS 13 9310 and got a Framework instead. The sleep/standby/hibernate stuff is just bad. I don’t know if it is a Dell problem or a Windows problem or what, but it’s terrible. I’m primarily a Mac user but I haven’t had the same issue with other Windows laptops and the Dell has standby issues in Linux too so it’s just bad. And loud. And hot.

Most of my Windows laptops in the past would do this in a bag (e.g., Sony and Razor). I'd pin it on Windows, not saying it happens to all Windows laptops but Windows allows it to happen. It knows to sleep when shut, but somehow spins back up in the bag.

Agreed. This happened with my Dell laptops, ROG laptops, and Thinkpads. It's just a Windows problem.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#427

Post by londons_explore »

fsckboy wrote: post #423
superjan wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely agree that microsoft could and should make this work better. But the pragmatic workaround is the setting to force hibernation when you close the lid. You can resume from SSD in 10 seconds. No middle of the night wakeups. Much improved battery life.

TFA says that hibernation is problematic for putting your computer into your bag. I understand what you mean by hibernation, and while it should not cause a problem... that's what the link says

When windows is hibernated, if a scheduled task is set for a specific time, it will use the hardware wake-up feature to turn on the machine and run the scheduled task.

Windows has a lot of 3am scheduled tasks for all kinds of random stuff (disk defrag, various update checks, etc). Any of those can cause the system to reawaken.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#429

Post by acchow »

vesinisa wrote: post #23
qwerty456127 wrote: post #12

> With regards to transporting your laptop, you must first turn the laptop OFF This has been a problem for already quite long. I remember my very old laptop overheating if being put in the backpack in Standby mode. Nowadays I in fact don't just turn laptops Off the default way. I go and disable the "fast start up" (Control Panel - Power Options - Choose what the power buttons do) to make sure the computer gets turnt…

This is so infuriating, because this problem has already been solved once. It's called "Hibernation", and was added in Windows 95. This should write your MEM image to disk, power the laptop completely off and allow later restoring where you left when powering your laptop back on. But laptop manufacturers (including Apple) thought it somehow smart to remove true hibernation, and replace it with some botched "deep slee…

Standby actually works 100% properly on my M1 and Intel MacBooks. Flush men to disk is not something I want or need. I quite like the instant availability and have come to expect it of products.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#430

Post by IIsi50MHz »

vbezhenar wrote: post #372
d110af5ccf wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBF hibernation has never been entirely reliable under Linux due to hardware vendors being difficult (IIUC). Getting it working for me has typically involved trying to make sense of arcane kernel log messages. I never managed to on my current laptop.

I don't really understand why is it the case. I could understand that sleep is a complex mode, when hardware have to properly sleep and restore. But hibernate is just dumping RAM to disk. It should not require anything special from underlying hardware.

Because reinitialising all the hardware and bringing it back to the same state is hard, and sometimes impossible with buggy hardware or whose full spec cannot be known..
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