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Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

theintercept.com

11–20 of 494 posts

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#11

if you called someone crazy at some point for suggesting this as a possibility, it is time to pause and reflect

I've asked people to explain to me why I should care one way or another, beyond curiosity, and no one has been able to answer yet.

That is to say, is there an actual person who is perfectly fine with all the terrible things the CCP plainly does, but finding out that they've been incompetently handling research will suddenly make them change their views?

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#12
post #7

I could be missing something but this isn't exactly the smoking gun the title makes it seem. I'm sure there are proposals, plans and applications for all types of things. What I'm waiting for, perhaps naively, is strong evidence, revelated an independent investigation, that there was some foul business going on here. Until I see that, I'm more inclined to rely on the word of experts who have no connection to any of t…

there will never be an independent investigation

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#13

if you called someone crazy at some point for suggesting this as a possibility, it is time to pause and reflect

It is reasonable & responsible to downplay theories that get constructed in absence of sufficient and meaningfully qualified evidence.

GP didn’t say “if you thought there was insufficient evidence before, you have some reflecting to do!”

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#14

if you called someone crazy at some point for suggesting this as a possibility, it is time to pause and reflect

It is reasonable & responsible to downplay theories that get constructed in absence of sufficient and meaningfully qualified evidence.

Animal origin theory/wet market/etc. have zero "meaningfully qualified evidence", are you as skeptical about those theories?

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#15
post #5

Why is this being flagged? Genuinely asking.

I've flagged it. Article is ok. But the title on HN is a cheap clickbait.

Someone, in USA, asking for a grant in the past doesn't point to anything about origins of SARS-CoV-2.

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#17

Was EcoHealth Alliance, the group referenced in the article, working in Wuhan?

Yes they were, in particular with the Wuhan Institute of Virology, and Peter Daszak himself was in Wuhan in October 2019.

EcoHealth just got defunded by the US Congress with bipartisan support: https://twitter.com/GReschenthaler/status/144122144752803020...

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#18
post #7

I could be missing something but this isn't exactly the smoking gun the title makes it seem. I'm sure there are proposals, plans and applications for all types of things. What I'm waiting for, perhaps naively, is strong evidence, revelated an independent investigation, that there was some foul business going on here. Until I see that, I'm more inclined to rely on the word of experts who have no connection to any of t…

I mean, even in the case that occurs, what is the endgame? Fine China? Sanction China? Demand accountability from China? Not happening, not when they make everyone's chips among other things.

Can someone enlighten me about the value of this theory? It just seems like another vector of anti-establishment distrust discourse with a more intelligent veneer; easy to profit off of (clicks, book sales, etc) and doesn't require a conclusion.

Re: Leaked grant proposal details high-risk coronavirus research

#20
post #7

I could be missing something but this isn't exactly the smoking gun the title makes it seem. I'm sure there are proposals, plans and applications for all types of things. What I'm waiting for, perhaps naively, is strong evidence, revelated an independent investigation, that there was some foul business going on here. Until I see that, I'm more inclined to rely on the word of experts who have no connection to any of t…

I agree with your characterisation of the evidence, except I think "Points to" is not synonymous with "smoking gun" so I don't think the criticism of the title is valid. In terms of how important this evidence is, it isn't just "a novel aspect of a viral genome", it is the aspect of the genome which is hardest to square with a natural origin. And it is an aspect that scientists involved in this research explicitly proposed inserting into coronaviruses. From the article:

"Let’s look at the big picture: A novel SARS coronavirus emerges in Wuhan with a novel cleavage site in it. We now have evidence that, in early 2018, they had pitched inserting novel cleavage sites into novel SARS-related viruses in their lab,” said Chan. “This definitely tips the scales for me. And I think it should do that for many other scientists too.”

Richard Ebright, a molecular biologist at Rutgers University who has espoused the possibility that SARS-CoV-2 may have originated in a lab, agreed. “The relevance of this is that SARS Cov-2, the pandemic virus, is the only virus in its entire genus of SARS-related coronaviruses that contains a fully functional cleavage site at the S1, S2 junction,” said Ebright, referring to the place where two subunits of the spike protein meet. “And here is a proposal from the beginning of 2018, proposing explicitly to engineer that sequence at that position in chimeric lab-generated coronaviruses."

And then what's more, they sat on the fact that they had requested funding for this research for the last 18 months, when the world has been desperately trying to find any relevant information on the virus' origins. The fact that they did not put this forward themselves in in and of itself suspect.

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